Assumptions on maids

[Abby]

After reading many positive and negative messages about maids on this board, I came up to an assumption list. I was wondering is there any advice I can get from you experienced mothers/employers about my assumptions. I am just trying to find my way, need your opinions.  

I will be in Singapore in a couple of weeks and planning to hire a live-in nanny/maid for the first time. I will have my second baby soon, and planning to return to work as soon as possible. My baby is 13 months old at the moment and the second
one is coming in May. I am a full time working mother and have a daytime nanny in UK at the moment.

We are quite easy going family and don't have too much expectations from the maid. The floors doesn't have to be mopped everyday, I enjoy and prefer cooking myself mostly, we both work in casual dresses so don't have too much white shirts to
iron, planning to have a smaller apartment etc. But, my main concern is the kids. Our nanny and us are spending a good time with our baby at the moment for playing, reading, going out with the baby. We always keep smiling face and keep explaining
things over and over patiently. We never raise our voice to anybody, trying to keep a soft and kind attitude at home. I am expecting a happy, patient maid to handle the kids and house environment nicely.

It is too difficult to find out just in a quick interview if that person is patient enough, has a happy face all day, goes easy with the kids, honest, responsible enough to leave two young babies all day, etc...

So I am assuming,
1 - older (40+) maids are more patient

2-  Indon maids are grown up with more strict rules than Filipino ones because of the religious issues, so they may adopt the
rules easier.

3 - I am hoping to find not too much a party girl. I remember myself when I was 18   Some people has more responsibility
in life than others, but being a young people makes all of us a bit more brave. As they get younger, they may get into trouble
easier. So still 40+ maids are more responsible???

4 - Honesty is difficult to test before actually trying. Not sure if the ones with a long experience has more into any kind of tricks or means they have survived long enough as a maid since they are trust worthy?

5 - I prefer someone with serious commitments such as supporting her child or family since I am assuming she might be more careful to not to loose her job. But I don't want to feel sorry for her every single day since she left her kids and family
behind and working to me. And of course, I can not handle to give her spontaneous breaks/holidays because of potential family problems.

6 - If that person is 40+, means couple of years younger than my mother, would I have any difficulty to dictate her what to do??? I am assuming I am comfortable enough about this issue, but she may have difficulty about it.

7 - The ones which worked for an expat family may ask more of everything, money, freedom, days/nights off, but the ones haven't worked with expats may appreciate our less work-load conditions, and be a good girl. Or, since they have no
experience on western way of doing things, I may end up explaining every single detail and may not get the softer attitude for the kids. I have heard that beating or shouting to the kids is a common and acceptable practice for most Asian countries,
where is a criminal case in my home.

8 - I prefer a lady who raised up her own kids, because I am assuming she knows how valuable the kids are, but does it mean she may want to apply her own way of discipline my kids if I am not around?

9 - Maids and the husbands, or friends, is it really common to face up some problems? I do trust to my husband, but honestly, I wouldn't want to live in a house with Clark Gable (or Brad Pitt for younger ladies). So should I really careful about how pretty my maid is, since we have many single male friends over there waiting for us to join them as well?  

I am not trying to be racist or discriminative about any of my assumptions. I am just trying to make my mind clear about what sort of person would be more suitable for my needs. I'd love to hear your aspect about my assumptions, but please only serious replies, since I really need to make a good decision, and just like anybody else, I don't want to be one of those victims to tell my story here later on.

Thanks a lot,
Abby

[kp]

I'm sorry but even tho' you say that you're not trying to be racist etc. I found your assumptions riddled with all sorts of age-ist, cultural stereotypes and prejudices. If you've been following all those amah horror story the threads on this board, I'd take it with a pinch of salt since few people write about the success stories.

OK, I'm not going to argue each of your points/misperceptions. My advise is to approach hiring a maid in the same rigorous manner that you would hire someone in business.
1) Get lots of references. Ask why she left previous employers. Talk to the employers
2) Interview her with your kids around to see how she interacts with them if at all
3) Prepare your interview questions
4) Arrange second round interviews when you might want to go in depth into some issues, give her case questions e.g. what would you do if...
5) Before making job offer, outline your terms and conditions (be very clear & painfully detailed, so spell out what your priorities are, whether she is happy with them)
good luck. Oh and another thing is no matter how much preparation you do - you just never know how it will work out - kinda like real life.

[Gail]

As a fulltime working mum of a two year old, that has had a live-in Filippino nanny since my child was born, I thought I'd give you my thoughts....

We too are an easy going bunch, and I told my nanny right from day one that her main daily task was to look after the child, and I didn't expect her to be a superwoman and keep a sparkling clean house, gourmet meals, clothes cleaned and ironed one day after they are in the hamper etc. But, my nanny amazes me that she does manage to do all of that AND do a great job of looking after my child. I have even had to tell her that she irons the shirts too well (each shirt takes about half hour to iron), since my hubby manages to totally crumple them one sec after they are put on. But, she still irons them perfectly! So I only have great things to say about my nanny.

As for your concern about smiliness and over-discipline, I don't find this an issue. These girls generally have sunny personalities, esp if they are living in a happy environment and don't forget that if they are coming straight from home they may feel some homesickness at first. They tend to be very loving to children. I don't think Filippinos are reared to strongly discipline children - a lot of people in constrast complain about the lack of discipline from maids. When my child went through a hitting and biting stage, I told my maid that she should scold her if my child hurt her.  Also, I watch in awe as one particular maid in our condo (Indonesian) looks after two boys (5,6) and a girl (2). These kids are little terrors, and yet she never disciplines them or mishandles them (which is good, I guess, although I really wonder how she can restrain herself from giving them a wallop, since that is what I feel like doing to them).  The poor thing, she seems to work 7 days a week, and I've never seen the parents play with the kids, but that is off on a tangent....

You may find yourself more comfortable with an older one. My nanny is aged 34, slightly older than me. I don't feel that this "age factor" (her being older)  is an issue for us. But one day a colleague asked me how I go with an older maid, since she had recently employed an older maid, after previously only having younger ones. She complained to me that she feels funny yelling at an older maid, and asked me if I had a problem with that. I was dumbstruck, since I've never yelled at my nanny.

Pretty/young vs not - well I have had friends whose maid was very pretty, and was always entering herself into beauty pagents (not that that is an issue), others who register themselves on websites to find husbands, and sucessfully get themselves married (again, not an issue). But if you want to avoid such, then get an older, less attractive one!!

Indonesian vs Filippino - I have the latter. I find that Filippinos very quickly form a network, often thru the church, and interact well with each other, eg take the kids out to playgrounds together, exchange recipes, spend the day off together, take classes together, etc. I think it is great for them to have friends and a social scene outside work, and I encourage this, whereas I find a lot of locals really discourage this. I never scold her for taking phone calls etc - so what, I email my friends while at work.

Well, that's it from me. All the best.

[cookie kids]

We have 2 children - 2 1/2 and 7 mth old - and chose a 26 yo maid.
We made a conscious choice to have a younger maid (than ourselves) who does not have a husband/children of her own. Purely because we felt that she should not be away from her own family to work for another (although we know this is the way of the world - for us it did not sit well). She is from a large family (10) and EXCELLENT with our children. I do not work so am at home for the majority of the day with her, but when I do leave her she is very responsible and has left me no reason to question my children's safety or happiness. She does get the household in order - cleans and cooks - but when I need help with the children she understands that they are her priority, and hey - if the shirts don't get ironed that day, there is always tomorrow (there is always at least 1 clean ironed  shirt for my husband to wear anyway)
I interviewed @ 20 maids (all Fillipino) and you just know when you have found the right one. Personality is very important - ie: you need to feel that they will fit in with your family and its dynamics and when our maid came to our home and I was talking with the agent, she calmly picked up my then 4 1/2 mth old son and was talking to him in such a calm way that I was delighted to offer her the position. I know that many people are seen to or do treat their maids as a 2nd class citizen - we treat ours as a member of our family and in a very short space of time she earned our respect and shares in the warmth of our home life with ease and care. Good luck - you will find the right one - and you will know it. Sometimes I think the problems that people find with their maids they bring on themselves, expecting too much for the money that they are paying knowing full well that they themselves cannot cope with doing the housework AND cooking AND raising their own children...yet expect someone from another country who speaks English as a second language and who is a stranger (initially) to do all that for what really is a pittance...really, we are so lucky to have this opportunity!        

[lady_lou_lou]

Yes it's great if you do have a good maid... really it is, but it unfair for you to offere adivice as thought they're all like your maid.

I know a lot of bad cases, i think your assumptions are on the right track. You do need to be very particular when deciding, this person is going to look after the most precious people in your life who depend on your for protection.

I'm afraid to say... that if your nice to them sometimes they are grateful and sometimes they take advantage of you. If your mean to them they're likely to take it out on someone...

Through an agency they make every maid sound wonderful.. i think your best bet is to get a maid through a recommendation from another mother, who would probably understand your dilemma.

Good luck with finding a maid and the birth of your child...  

[Penny]

Abby, I don't think you're racist, sexist, whatever, from your post because you do need to ask these questions to protect yourself and also to be fair to the other party by hiring the most suitable person for the job.

I wish I asked more questions when I first got to Singapore.

I've just posted my own unpleasant experience with my maid. I think I'm unlucky though because there are some wonderful helpers out there - and worth their weight in gold.

Basically, you can't rely too much on reference letters. You'll see why if you read my post!

Older women may or may not be easier to dictate to. I had a lovely older lady work for me in Hong kong. (She was in the "worth-their-weight-in-gold" category.) My current older lady maid listens to me only when it suits her.

And even though she is older (40+) and not very pretty, she still dresses to kill. Though I know it's self-expression and that's her right, it can be rather disconcerting.

Good luck with it all!

[A_mum]

I have a live in but my children are older than yours.  I would seriously have to think if I would want a maid to look after such young children.  They may do things how you want them doing when you are around but it may be different when you are not. There was a post recently where a mum was having problems with her child because the maid was not following her rules re child care.  

You would also have to be very specific about safety rules.  My helper could not see what the problem was in keeping a bucket full of water in her bathroom when there was a very active and inquisitive toddler in the house.

A word of caution about employing someone because she made a fuss of your children during interview.  The more clever ones know that is the best way to get a job.

[Abby]

Thanks a lot Gail ,cookie kids, lady_lou_lou and Penny I needed that. I believe there are many nice people (regardless employer or maid) around. Now I have more confidence that I can find a nice person if I look around a while.

There is one more question I need to ask. I totally support some personal activities for my maid just like rest of us. I want her to have friends, keep contact with her family, some courses she may like, etc. About having guests at home, I see no reason why she can not. If our neighbour maid takes the kids and come over for a cup of tea, I would love it. My current nanny in UK takes care of my doughter at her own home and  quite a social person and I know the difference on my doughter. She is very social, easy with everbody, does all greetings genearously and happy to be with other kids. Is there such thing as allowing your maid to have guests???

And one final concern, I have heard that sometimes people may give false reference for their maids just to get rid of them. I know there is no guaranteed solution to that, but how common is it really?

Thanks ladies, I appreciate,
Cheers,
Abby

[Tammy]

You may wish to consider what one English working mother did on our condo. She employed nannies from the UK who had done the NNEB nursery nursing course and had previous work experience. It was all done quite legally, and if the parents had to go out of town they were far happier leaving the children with a competent nanny.

She used agencies in the UK; you can easily find them via the internet, through magazines, or the list of approved licensed agencies from the Foreign & Commonwealth Office website (look up under Au Pairs or nannies). It worked very well as the nannies were thrilled to be working in the Far East. You could probably find Kiwi or Aussie nannies too. I did notice that there were quite a few of them who would have playdates at our condo, they got around with the children by taxi or often by driving their employer's car, so there were lots of trips to the nature parks and zoo.

Our neighbour also employed a maid, whose duties were primarily housekeeping and occasional babysitting when the nanny was off duty.  She's relocated to Houston now, so I'm afraid I can't put you in touch with her about the experience.  

On the same condo I have seen maids in charge of the children either totally ignoring them and chatting amongst themselves, or worse, shouting at the children when they didn't realise they were being observed. The problem is when you employ someone to care for children you really have to go on trust and hope for the best - unless you do what some American parents do and have hidden video cameras.....  

[This message has been edited by BoardManager (edited 14-11-2002).]

[Abby]

Tammy, is it acceptable by agencies or Singaporean laws to set a hidden video camera at home? If I'd do, I think I'd like to let my nanny know that there is a camera. Then she may be a bit more careful. Actually even if my nanny thinks it's OK, I don't want to come across some legal problems later on, since I have no idea about having a hidden or known camera is legal at all. But it is absolutely a good idea.

[Tammy]

I have no idea about the Singapore laws regarding this - I doubt that there are indeed any laws! I would think that as long as it is not in her bedroom or bathroom (which would be considered a gross invasion of privacy, obviously)   then there shouldn't be any problems.

I wouldn't initially tell the childcarer that you have a camera...at least for the first month/probationary period, so you get to see how the child is naturally being cared for and a big show isn't being put on just for the camera. A lot of them are disguised as clock radios, teddy bears etc.  Alternatively you can have a camera on your computer, connected to the internet so you can see your child playing/eating/sleeping etc. throughout the day whilst you are at work, then the childcarer would know for sure that you are monitoring the quality of childcare.  

You can do some research on the internet for 'net nannies' for example, but you would need to check that anything electrical you buy will operate from the UK/Singapore voltage - lots of security companies in the UK should be able to help, perhaps you could check the Yellow Pages.

[Wit's end]

Hi Abby

All I can say is GOOD LUCK!!  I researched, as you are, the issues about maids, and wanted to know about their motivations for working etc etc.  I found what I thought was the perfect girl and we started off really well.

Yesterday however I'd had enough and took her back to the agency - she has broken her contract with me and they are taking her to the airport tonight.

I don't wish to go into all the details on the ***, but if you email me on the_***2002@yahoo.co.uk I'd be happy to share my experience with you in the hope it will help you.

I'm afraid all the assumptions and research in the world will make you no guarantees.  However, there are many many wonderful girls out there - I hope you find one.