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ExpatSingapore Message Board 13 February 2012, 21:40:21 pm *
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Author Topic: "not racist, just nationalist"  (Read 3458 times)
kleverkljogs
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« Reply #15 on: 22 November 2005, 1:17:00 am »

I wouldn't hire a chinese, he can't think

I wouldn't hire a malay, he's lazy.

I wouldn't hire an Indian, he can't be trusted.

I wouldn't hire an expat, he's too expensive.

What does that make me?

Apart from a satyrist?

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« Reply #15 on: 22 November 2005, 1:17:00 am »



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rubicond
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« Reply #16 on: 22 November 2005, 11:00:00 am »

The owner of a one-person company? How do you call that?
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charlieb
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« Reply #17 on: 22 November 2005, 11:37:00 am »

"Shows how little you know. They are fiercely anti-nationalistic now."

So they used to be racist?? They no longer are, overnight?

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BP
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« Reply #18 on: 22 November 2005, 12:48:00 pm »

Rubicond. >>>my statment was not racist at all just a fact. Even though there's considerable extra expense, company's choose to "import" foreign talent. I'm sure that if local talent was available they'd use it. This is also confirmed by the amount of long term ex-pats being "pushed" into local contracts.  They want the foreign talent but not the expense.

[This message has been edited by BP (edited 22-11-2005).]

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Addadude
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« Reply #19 on: 22 November 2005, 16:12:00 pm »

Rubicond, you have misinterpreted what I wrote. To summarise:

1. AT is in his view correcting the injustices of the past whereby talented locals were overlooked in favour of sometimes less talented expats.

2. Talent is a very rare commodity. (see my first post on this.) So making a blanket decision to hire based on race or nationality means that you are limiting your choice of people out there. Which, at least in the advertising game, is foolish nonsense.

3. AT is free to hire whoever he likes for whatever reason he likes BUT because of talent being a rare commodity, he is making what I consider to be a very foolish stand. So, he will need all the luck he can get.

BP, yes I have no doubt that many expats bring with them some very valuable skills and abilities that are lacking here. And very few local companies would willing to shell out the extra cost of hiring a white face unless there is a good business reason to do so. But, in the not too distant past, this wasn't the case - at least in the ad industry. I personally know of some very talented local guys on both the creative and account servicing side who were overlooked because they were local. So I can understand the residual bitterness that folks like AT will feel. Time will tell whether his philosophy will pay off - and he doesn't seem to be doing too badly at the moment!

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charlieb
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« Reply #20 on: 23 November 2005, 2:27:00 am »

Ugly images of Asian rivals become best sellers in Japan

TOKYO - A young Japanese woman in the comic book "Hating the Korean Wave" exclaims, "It's not an exaggeration to say that Japan built the South Korea of today!" In another passage the book states that "there is nothing at all in Korean culture to be proud of."

In "Hating the Korean Wave," a young Japanese woman says, "It's not an exaggeration to say that Japan built the South Korea of today!"

In another comic book, "Introduction to China," which portrays the Chinese as a depraved people obsessed with cannibalism, a woman of Japanese origin says: "Take the China of today, its principles, thought, literature, art, science, institutions. There's nothing attractive."

In "Hating the Korean Wave," a young Japanese woman says, "It's not an exaggeration to say that Japan built the South Korea of today!"

The two comic books, portraying Chinese and Koreans as base peoples and advocating confrontation with them, have become runaway best sellers in Japan in the last four months.

In their graphic and unflattering drawings of Japan's fellow Asians and in the unapologetic, often offensive contents of their speech bubbles, the books reveal some of the sentiments underlying Japan's worsening relations with the rest of Asia.

They also point to Japan's longstanding unease with the rest of Asia and its own sense of identity, which is akin to Britain's apartness from the Continent. Much of Japan's history in the last century and a half has been guided by the goal of becoming more like the West and less like Asia. Today, China and South Korea's rise to challenge Japan's position as Asia's economic, diplomatic and cultural leader is inspiring renewed xenophobia against them here.

Kanji Nishio, a scholar of German literature, is honorary chairman of the Japanese Society for History Textbook Reform, the nationalist organization that has pushed to have references to the country's wartime atrocities eliminated from junior high school textbooks.

Mr. Nishio is blunt about how Japan should deal with its neighbors, saying nothing has changed since 1885, when one of modern Japan's most influential intellectuals, Yukichi Fukuzawa, said Japan should emulate the advanced nations of the West and leave Asia by dissociating itself from its backward neighbors, especially China and Korea.

"I wonder why they haven't grown up at all," Mr. Nishio said. "They don't change. I wonder why China and Korea haven't learned anything."

Mr. Nishio, who wrote a chapter in the comic book about South Korea, said Japan should try to cut itself off from China and South Korea, as Fukuzawa advocated. "Currently we cannot ignore South Korea and China," Mr. Nishio said. "Economically, it's difficult. But in our hearts, psychologically, we should remain composed and keep that attitude."

The reality that South Korea had emerged as a rival hit many Japanese with full force in 2002, when the countries were co-hosts of soccer's World Cup and South Korea advanced further than Japan. At the same time, the so-called Korean Wave - television dramas, movies and music from South Korea - swept Japan and the rest of Asia, often displacing Japanese pop cultural exports.

The wave, though popular among Japanese women, gave rise to a countermovement, especially on the Internet. Sharin Yamano, the young cartoonist behind "Hating the Korean Wave," began his strip on his own Web site then.

"The 'Hate Korea' feelings have spread explosively since the World Cup," said Akihide Tange, an editor at Shinyusha, the publisher of the comic book. Still, the number of sales, 360,000 so far, surprised the book's editors, suggesting that the Hate Korea movement was far larger than they had believed.

"We weren't expecting there'd be so many," said Susumu Yamanaka, another editor at Shinyusha. "But when the lid was actually taken off, we found a tremendous number of people feeling this way."

So far the two books, each running about 300 pages and costing around $10, have drawn little criticism from public officials, intellectuals or the mainstream news media. For example, Japan's most conservative national daily, Sankei Shimbun, said the Korea book described issues between the countries "extremely rationally, without losing its balance."

As nationalists and revisionists have come to dominate the public debate in Japan, figures advocating an honest view of history are being silenced, said Yutaka Yoshida, a historian at Hitotsubashi University here. Mr. Yoshida said the growing movement to deny history, like the Rape of Nanjing, was a sort of "religion" for an increasingly insecure nation.

"Lacking confidence, they need a story of healing," Mr. Yoshida said. "Even if we say that story is different from facts, it doesn't mean anything to them."

The Korea book's cartoonist, who is working on a sequel, has turned down interview requests. The book centers on a Japanese teenager, Kaname, who attains a "correct" understanding of Korea. It begins with a chapter on how South Korea's soccer team supposedly cheated to advance in the 2002 Word Cup; later chapters show how Kaname realizes that South Korea owes its current success to Japanese colonialism.

"It is Japan who made it possible for Koreans to join the ranks of major nations, not themselves," Mr. Nishio said of colonial Korea.

But the comic book, perhaps inadvertently, also betrays Japan's conflicted identity, its longstanding feelings of superiority toward Asia and of inferiority toward the West. The Japanese characters in the book are drawn with big eyes, blond hair and Caucasian features; the Koreans are drawn with black hair, narrow eyes and very Asian features.

That peculiar aesthetic, so entrenched in pop culture that most Japanese are unaware of it, has its roots in the Meiji Restoration of the late 19th century, when Japanese leaders decided that the best way to stop Western imperialists from reaching here was to emulate them.

In 1885, Fukuzawa - who is revered to this day as the intellectual father of modern Japan and adorns the 10,000 yen bill (the rough equivalent of a $100 bill) - wrote "Leaving Asia," the essay that many scholars believe provided the intellectual underpinning of Japan's subsequent invasion and colonization of Asian nations.

Fukuzawa bemoaned the fact that Japan's neighbors were hopelessly backward.

Writing that "those with bad companions cannot avoid bad reputations," Fukuzawa said Japan should depart from Asia and "cast our lot with the civilized countries of the West." He wrote of Japan's Asian neighbors, "We should deal with them exactly as the Westerners do."

As those sentiments took root, the Japanese began acquiring Caucasian features in popular drawing. The biggest change occurred during the Russo-Japanese War of 1904 to 1905, when drawings of the war showed Japanese standing taller than Russians, with straight noses and other features that made them look more European than their European enemies.

"The Japanese had to look more handsome than the enemy," said Mr. Nagayama.

Many of the same influences are at work in the other new comic book, "An Introduction to China," which depicts the Chinese as obsessed with cannibalism and prostitution, and has sold 180,000 copies.

The book describes China as the "world's prostitution superpower" and says, without offering evidence, that prostitution accounts for 10 percent of the country's gross domestic product. It describes China as a source of disease and depicts Prime Minister Junichiro Koizumi saying, "I hear that most of the epidemics that broke out in Japan on a large scale are from China."

The book waves away Japan's worst wartime atrocities in China. It dismisses the Rape of Nanjing, in which historians say 100,000 to 300,000 Chinese were killed by Japanese soldiers in 1937-38, as a fabrication of the Chinese government devised to spread anti-Japanese sentiment.

The book also says the Japanese Imperial Army's Unit 731 - which researched biological warfare and conducted vivisections, amputations and other experiments on thousands of Chinese and other prisoners - was actually formed to defend Japanese soldiers against the Chinese.

"The only attractive thing that China has to offer is Chinese food," said Ko Bunyu, a Taiwan-born writer who provided the script for the comic book. Mr. Ko, 66, has written more than 50 books on China, some on cannibalism and others arguing that Japanese were the real victims of their wartime atrocities in China. The book's main author and cartoonist, a Japanese named George Akiyama, declined to be interviewed.

Like some in Taiwan who are virulently anti-mainland, Mr. Ko is fiercely pro-Japanese and has lived here for four decades. A longtime favorite of the Japanese right, Mr. Ko said anti-Japan demonstrations in Chinese mainland early this year had earned him a wider audience. Sales of his books surged this year, to one million.

"I have to thank the mainland, really," Mr. Ko said. "But I'm disappointed that the sales of my books could have been more than one or two million if they had continued the demonstrations."

Courtesy of the New York Times

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Publius
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« Reply #21 on: 23 November 2005, 5:34:00 am »

Apparently the concept of "An Equal Opportunity Employer" hasn't reached these far shores yet.

It is appalling to read some posters opening condoning job discrimination on this board. No, it is not true that an employer can discriminate on the basis of race -at least not while he or she enjoys any public benefits whatsoever, from tax breaks, policing, etc.,

In virtually every respect, Singapore is still a distant backwater when it comes to civil rights.


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Ah Seng

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« Reply #22 on: 23 November 2005, 9:23:00 am »

People elsewhere just don't do it openly. Look what happened in France recently. And I'm sure the US, the UK, Australia, etc, are all shivering in their boots right now...
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rubicond
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« Reply #23 on: 23 November 2005, 10:08:00 am »

"it is not true that an employer can discriminate on the basis of race -at least not while he or she enjoys any public benefits whatsoever, from tax breaks, policing, etc.,"

I fully agree. But if the employer isn't receiving any particular public benefit, he or she can employ whoever he or she wishes. If you were an employer, wouldn't you want to hire whom you want?

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SoSo
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« Reply #24 on: 23 November 2005, 14:10:00 pm »

Hello Charlie

Good idea.  Go trawl the internet for articles that suit your argument. The internet is great isn’t it? If you really want to hate some people there’s always something on the internet to justify your hate. I’ll help you out:

Try: http://abcnews.go.com/Primetime/story?id=1231684&page=1  
   This is about white supremacy & racism in the U.S.A. You can hate the Americans now too.

http://www.rickross.com/groups/neonazis.html
This is about Neo Nazis. We can wipe out the Germans too.

http://www.childrens-express.org/dynamic/public/d678218.htm
Whoops, Britain gone as well… and they hate the French but they’re no better we know what happened recently there. Great off go the French.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~griff52/immigration1988.htm
Off with the Aussies!

http://www.brazilbrazil.com/racism.html
Wow… didn’t think we’d get it in Brazil too… oh well..

http://app1.chinadaily.com.cn/star/2002/0905/vo2-2.html
Great quote from China… “There is no racism in China because we don't have any black people”


   Then of course, don’t forget that the Indians and Pakistanis hate each other…

Hey! We’ve got through more than half the world’s population to hate. Does it make you feel better?

The truth is racism exists everywhere and Japan is no exception. Mankind is probably the single most vicious and hateful animal on this planet and wherever you get them you’ll have examples of what nastiness they can do.

As for Japan, of course it exists. No one denies that. But the positive side of the country should be seen as well. For example, did you know that Japan foots 20% of the UN budget? That’s more than any other single country. I had four colleagues leave the company I worked with in Japan to study and join the UN. They have done so and are married to Japanese partners who are also in the UN. Japan has a huge development aid program – China alone has received US$30bn over 30-40 years. (It’s not something they publicly talk about.) My wife used to work in Singapore for a government aid department that organizes aid after natural disasters. It also actively provides courses for lesser developed countries to help them in organizing all sorts of issues in their communities. My wife was quite taken aback by many of the course participants who made a point of talking to the staff and thanking them profusely for the help the Japanese had given in assisting in building projects in their community.

Just think of all these nationalistic Japanese – probably the most traveled people in the world for holidays. What about the World Cup in 2002 (jointly hosted with Korea) which were voted the most friendly for both centres. Gosh, you must be thinking how difficult it was for such xenophobic people to be nice! Don’t forget the thousands and thousands of mixed marriages. We know so many who are married to all types of nationalities including Singaporeans. We even know two mainland Chinese/Japanese couples who are all lovely people.

So you see, you’re right racism does exist in Japan as anywhere and it’s easy to paint with a big black brush but unless you know the people you’ll be amazed at the variety of characters and how nice they all are. This thread is about a Singaporean guy. Are we to now consider ALL Singaporeans as racist? The government actually does quite a bit to try and break down the barriers and personally I know some absolutely fabulous Singaporeans.

I looked in dictionary dot com for the word racism. It said:
1.   The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others.
2.   Discrimination or prejudice based on race.

I notice that all your posts in this thread are anti-Japanese. Perhaps you should try to open up your heart and begin to look more rationally at the world and its people, perhaps be a little more balanced with your views. After all this is a thread that’s about the unpleasantness of racism and I wouldn’t want you to embarrass yourself any further.

[This message has been edited by SoSo (edited 23-11-2005).]

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rubicond
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« Reply #25 on: 23 November 2005, 14:34:00 pm »

Charlie, it's funny how the article depicts the whole Japanese population as racist, just because 2 silly books are racist. What about the HUGE popularity of Korean soap operas? And the subsequent HUGE popularity of joung Korean men, who seem to be by much preferred to young Japanese men by young Japanese women?
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charlieb
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« Reply #26 on: 23 November 2005, 15:03:00 pm »

SoSo,

I know anything remotely negative being mentioned about Japan will get you in hysteria. Calm down for goodness' sake.

"...The truth is racism exists everywhere and Japan is no exception. Mankind is probably the single most vicious and hateful animal on this planet and wherever you get them you’ll have examples of what nastiness they can do..."

That's what I was trying to get at. The rest of your post is just plain boloney. As for your definition of racism, it was you who equated being nationalistic with being racist. You might want to give yourself a tight slap in the face.

Lastly, you might like to take your own advice and be more balanced in your views instead of being so blatantly pro-Japan. The intention of my posts was basically to provoke you into doing that. Haven't had much success but it's a step.

rubicond, it's not just the 2 silly books, it's the popularity of them. The article, by the way, appeared in a recent edition of the New York Times, not just any obscure websites.

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SoSo
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« Reply #27 on: 23 November 2005, 15:32:00 pm »

Charlie

You must be a sad man.

Do read some of my posts about Japan - I do point out positive and negative sides of which there are many for both aspects.

I should add that I do defend Japan a lot because so much is said in ignorance by people who have never lived there, no nothing about the Japanese except the war and whose agenda appears to be one of wanting to hate.

Keep up the medication eh?!

[This message has been edited by SoSo (edited 23-11-2005).]

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rubicond
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« Reply #28 on: 23 November 2005, 15:45:00 pm »

Charlie, it's funny how the article depicts the whole Japanese population as racist, just because 2 silly books are racist. What about the HUGE popularity of Korean soap operas? And the subsequent HUGE popularity of joung Korean men, who seem to be by much preferred to young Japanese men by young Japanese women?
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charlieb
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« Reply #29 on: 23 November 2005, 23:57:00 pm »

SoSo, I think you ARE the sad one. Many of the not-so-favourable comments on Japan were from people who have lived in Japan. You have to grow up and accept that one man's meat is another's poison. Now give yourself another tight slap.

rubicond, you will have to ask the person who wrote that article.

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