'Bring it On'. UN Tragedy

[Dolemite]

Not saying anything contrary, just correcting your assertion that there is some "eye for an eye injunction" in the Bible. There is not.

[Imagine]

Dolemite,

Deutronomy 19:21 (old testament)
"Your eye shall not pity, but life shall be for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot"

[Dolemite]

How about looking at that line in context. It's not about revenge, imagine. It's guidelines for judgement of a criminal.

Witnesses
15 One witness is not enough to convict a man accused of any crime or offense he may have committed. A matter must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.
16 If a malicious witness takes the stand to accuse a man of a crime, 17 the two men involved in the dispute must stand in the presence of the LORD before the priests and the judges who are in office at the time. 18 The judges must make a thorough investigation, and if the witness proves to be a liar, giving false testimony against his brother, 19 then do to him as he intended to do to his brother. You must purge the evil from among you. 20 The rest of the people will hear of this and be afraid, and never again will such an evil thing be done among you. 21 Show no pity: life for life, eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot.

It's not a call to vigilanteism. It's guidance to judges.  

[Dr Opinion]

Muslims don't recognize the New Testament or Old Testament. They rely on the Koran. You guys sure are a little provincial.  

The Koran is not "based" on the Old Testament (essentially the Jewish Torah) either... rather, the Koran was dictated by Gabriel line for line to Mohammad over the course of 30 years.

A few of the OT stories show up in the Koran, but they are different. For example, in the OT, Abraham has a son Ishmael, by his wife's handmaiden. When his aged wife Sarah unexpectedly also has a child, Isaac, she forces him (out of jealousy) to send away the handmaiden and first son. Later, he is told by God to sacrifice Isaac, but at the last minute God offers a ram instead. The Jews (and thus Jesus) trace their line to Isaac.

In the the Koran the story is kinda turned around a bit and Abraham is told by God to sacrifice Ishmael even before Isaac is on the scene. God offers the Ram again. Abe later sends off the handmaiden and Ishmael as in the OT, and the Muslims trace themselves back to Ishmaels line.

Regarding "eye for an eye", the Koran offers this: "The reward for an injury is an equal injury back; but if a person forgives instead, and makes reconciliation, he will be rewarded by God." (Surah 42:40)

Class is over.  

[Imagine]

Dolemite,

You are right. You just said that there was not some injunction to eye for an eye in the old testament.
Well... there is some injunction, but it is in a different context.
However I might think that some people disagree.

Dr O,
I guess you are also right.
What you say is that the Koran basically does not forbid to act vengeance.
It states that if you don't the reward will be higher.
If you do not want the high reward... revenge is ok.

[Fresh Mint]

Panama Hat:

You afterthought may well be interesting, but then misinformation is often far more interesting than truth.

Jimmy Carter the only U.S. president not to send U.S. soldiers into battle since 1945? Not true.

Ever heard of Operation Eagle Claw, the U.S. military mission to free the embassy hostages in Tehran?  Eight Americans soldiers were killed as two planes collided during the subsequent withdrawal of U.S. forces from what was a nightmare for the old peanut farmer. It was certainly one of the things that cost him re-election.

[Imagine]

Fresh Mint,

Hahahaha... you just stepped into a cleverly laid trap by Panama Hat.

You should not have taken PH's word literally... you should have taken it "farcical"

"Done it all, except for the two Poles (and my history lessons)"

[Panama Hat]

Fresh Mint - I guess (and it's a guess only) that that was not sending soldiers into battle, but to free hostages without seeking to get into battle.  Got this info from a US history website (Imagine might try to read some of those before making vacuous comments)  

Imagine - you've learned how to use inverted commas - how clever of you.  

How about 'rot op' . . .

[This message has been edited by Panama Hat (edited 24-08-2003).]

[Imagine]

Panama Hat,

How about you take two poles and stick 'm up your a**?

Then you can say you have done them as well.  

[Euro-Aussie]

Imagine being imaginative yet again.  Let's see - KLOOTZAK - springs to mind, a big one.  

The more it's talked about, the more it makes sense; Imagine and Antoine are one and the same.  

Please enlighten us as to which history book you would find this incidence in.  

Why do you find it impossible to follow a thread - instead of trying to derail it all the time . . .  

Anyway, if you don't know the meaning of a word - ask like a good boy.  

Farcical . . .

[Panama Hat]

Nice sidetracking on the topic Imagine, as usual.  You can always be relied on to bring to an end a sensible discussion.  
Go back to your broodje-kaas and bitterballetjes - Dutch version of fine cuisine - and try contributing something worthwhile.  

Go on, give us another witty insight into your psyche, you clever little kaaskop.

[T2K]

Poles up arses and Dutch cuisine aside, clearly the Iranian hostage rescue mission was sending soldiers into action.
The intent was for US troops to engage in combat on foreign soil, though the accident caused it to be abandoned.

Otherwise you get into all kinds of twisted logic like "Lyndon Johnson never sent US troops into battle, he only sent them to South Vietnam to support the democratic regime there without seeking to get them into battle." or something like that.

Just because you saw it on a website doesn't make it true.  Lots of so-called history websites have agendas.

[Panama Hat]

Agreed, sounded right, though, especially mentioning Carter.  

Thanks for bringing this thread back into line.  

[Imagine]

PH & EA.

Peace?

[Fresh Mint]

Clearly poles apart on the issue...

P.H. you got it wrong. Take your medicine nicely and the humour that went with it

E.A. Incidence? If you don't know the meaning of a word, as you said, ask like a good boy --or was that a cleverly laid trap too....

[This message has been edited by Fresh Mint (edited 24-08-2003).]