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ExpatSingapore Message Board 25 May 2012, 8:37:40 am *
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Author Topic: Time to speak out  (Read 743 times)
KenCan

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« on: 04 July 2002, 21:21:00 pm »


I have watched for the past year or so in silence the state of the world around me. I can't bare to be silent any longer.

I know there has been a lot of US bashing on this board but I want to engage people in a discussion to try to come up with a solution.

The US government has bullied, interfered and taken advantage of its own people as well as other people for years and years. So what is different now? It is called GWB.

The story goes somehting like this:

Oil, oil and oil - Bush the texan cowboy, the money hungry oil rich that he is won the presidency even though most of the county did not vote for him. He had to win supporters. If the public think they are in danger, then they are less likely to complain about the way the country is run. The cold war was over so Bush was stuck trying to find a way out. In the meantime, the negotiations with the Taliban were failing and the US companies had no way of building the pipe lines to pump oil from the Caspian Sea.

Tragedy or opportunity?- Then the tragedy of September 11 happened. No one knows for sure what the story behind that was. Al Qaeda being the main suspects. We won't go into whether Bush saw the opportunities before the event or after since only the whitehouse knows whether they LET the attackers go through with their mission or not.

Invisible enemy- No more Cold War, bush thought to himself, but now we have an even better enemy. An invisible one. One that is so fluid that we can get away with anything trying to stop. After all, no one really knows where they are and what shape and form they will take. it is called Terrorism. We can be everywhere because the enemy is everwhere.

Call the Navy Chief- September 11th saw the tragic death of around 2000 people. Something had to be done and Bush was the man to do it. Bush thought to himself... Let's attack Afghanistan. They think their harbours are safe, but they are wrong. unitl somebody pointed out to him that Afghanistan has no harbours!

Strategic war - But surely a country so backward which is already at war would be the perfect place to attack. We will prove to everyone how powerful we really are and no one will make fun of me anymore Bush thought to himself. and we can build that pipe line that we have been talking about. We can keep an eye on the Chinese, the Russians and Iran. All in teh name of defending our country. We dont have to do much. We attack from air, drop cluster bombs and let the northern alliance do the real fighting. No one will dare question it. But to be sure, let's threaten the world :'You are either with us or against us'. No one will budge. We are the biggest military power in the world.

Civilian casualties - More than double the number of victims of September 11th died in Afghanistan. But of course, this was kept quite. After all, the US government had nothing to show in return. Sure, the Taliban had disappeared but they had now lost bin Ladin.

Prisoners of war- 'The Al Qaeda are not prisoners of war'. Say What? Oh, they are not prisoners of war and to keep them safe, we are going to send them to a neighbouring country torture them until they talk. We could never get away with that in the US. But what about John Walker? he is American. We can't torture one of our own.

Enron. What a disaster. Bush's name was all over it. Documents can not be disclosed because there is sensitive information that the president should not have to share with the courts. What can we do to distract attention from it. I know. Israel, Palestine, war on terrorism.

Axis of what?- Just when South and North Korea were making progress, Bush and his big mouth nearly put the two countries back at war.

Missiles – "We know we agreed with the Russians to destroy our weapons but you see, we are at war and we could not possibly do that. You know, terrorism, the war on terror? Instead, how about we put them into storage?"

Cuba - "We need some votes in Florida and since there is a big number of Cubans in Florida, let's pay Cuba a little visit. "

Steel - We need some votes from the workers. Let's increase the tarrifs for imported steel, even though we are pushing for globalisation. They will love us for it. I dont want to hear about how in the long run it will not be good for us because

Pretzel - A few months later, we were told Bush choked on a pretzel and was rushed to the hospital. Likely story. We will never know what happened there.

Mightier than the Law- The US government threatens the UN. After all, we are mightier than any international law. We own the world. Why should we have to answer to anybody? We will not only pull out our own peace keepers but make it impossible for the Italians and the rest of them to operate. They will have to give in. After all, who do they think they are to investigate bombings of wedding parties. We can bomb anyone we wish to.

Insider trading - Bush was up for investigations for insider trading while he was on the board of one of the companies. He sold his shares only days before the company's share prices plunged. But he has taken such a long time to prepare the paperwork so the investigations have been put on hold.

The economy - The US dollar continues to dive. The stock market at a 4.5 year low. Fear, uncertainty...

When is enough, enough? how much more of this are we prepared to take? The American public together with the rest of the world have been taken for a fool. When are we going to realise that it does not have to be this way? How can we find a solution to this problem called Bush? He is going to be around for a bit longer and my guess is, things are just going to keep getting worse and worse.

And before you start accusing me along with anyone else as being Anti-American, I am not sure what that word means but I am not one. I just don't like seeing people suffer thinking it has to be this way. What can we do about it? I am in particular interested in hearing the American citizens' view on this.

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« on: 04 July 2002, 21:21:00 pm »



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funkev
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« Reply #1 on: 05 July 2002, 10:28:00 am »

Brief note:  I think all these events deserve a much more complex analysis than scapegoating Bush per se (at best, he represents an orientation/perspective that has led to some of these events - but he individually is not to blame for all this).  I would urge all to analyze such issues with more complexity.

BTW, I am not a Bush lover.  I think he is perhaps the most intellectually-challenged Prez since Grant.  I definitely did not vote for him.

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want_to_believe
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« Reply #2 on: 05 July 2002, 10:56:00 am »

again another anti-american posting. You "forgot" some small details aboute the whole situation , maybe because they don't fit in the picture you draw. The Afgan Gouvernment was asked again and again to hand over Bin Laden...a criminal and terrorist. They refused for no reason. The war on Afganist would never happend if they had handed over Bin Laden in the first place. And You also forgot that the taliban startet this war by killing 2000 americans and causing a huge damage to the world economy with absolutly no reason . The damage to the world economy was so huge that they could never pay for it even if the sell whole afganistan.
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T2K
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« Reply #3 on: 05 July 2002, 11:48:00 am »

You want an American citizen's viewpoint?  OK, here it is.

What you've written above is a simplistic and senseless collection of conspiracy theories and cover-ups made up of ridiculous guesses, assumptions and incorrect facts.

As far as I can tell, the assertion being made is that GWB is behind all this so that he can make money from his interests in the oil business?

Are you joking?  Clinton will make more money than that from his book deals, speaking engagements and talk show appearances.

For instance, the part about harbors.  He said something about there not being any "safe harbors of terrorism", which is a common english language use of the word which does not refer to physical harbors, but rather metaphorical ones.  It's a myth that GWB thought that Afghanistan had seaports.  Just like it's a myth that thousands of Jews didn't go to work at the WTC on Sep. 11th.  Nonetheless, both are commonly believed.

The pretzel thing?  Huh?  You mean there is a cover-up there too?  Isn't it already embarrassing enough?  Is the pretzel thing a story to cover up the WWF style brawl that GWB and Colin Powell had in the Oval Office?

So, in summary, come on - wake up.  Things are never so black and white in the real world.

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kes
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« Reply #4 on: 05 July 2002, 11:53:00 am »

I think the American Government knows that having a weak dollar is not a good thing for the country and the world.  

I doubt they are stupid enough to sabotage their own currency.

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Joseph27
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« Reply #5 on: 05 July 2002, 12:06:00 pm »

In case none of you actually realise this - Bush's going to hospital for a Pretzel attack was indeed a conspiracy of the worst kind.  Aunt Anne and her team of Aunties were offended by Bush - and so conspired with a group of former terrorist that shall remain unnamed.  Their aim was the choking death of a certain GWB - and it would have worked if it hadnt been for those damn....

Well you can see where I'm going with this- so I should stop before I become too silly

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"truth is a group of metaphors, metonyms, and anthropomorphisms; a sum of human relation which is poetically and rhetorically intensified, metamorphosed and adored so that after a long time it is then codified in the binding canon."
Rachel

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« Reply #6 on: 05 July 2002, 12:07:00 pm »

Conspiracy Theories = Rumours = Garbled, un-(or very poorly) researched, uneducated, suspicion-fuelled, sub-level slander.
Like the one I heard from a London cabbie about Prince Harry being James Hewitt's son, or that Al Qaeda was behind Princess Di's death. Having said that, AQ is probably beyond the slander pale now.
It's easy to point the finger and create a pansy, especially a pansy in power, in fact, it's downright common. So common it's boring.
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Sue C
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« Reply #7 on: 05 July 2002, 12:45:00 pm »

I wish we had an Auntie Annes here in Sydney...Pretzel World just aren't the same...
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KatyF
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« Reply #8 on: 05 July 2002, 13:54:00 pm »

I'm willing to bet that the minute Prince Harry and Prince thingy were born, their DNA was tested.  Nice thought, though!
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kes
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« Reply #9 on: 05 July 2002, 14:07:00 pm »

From an economist point of view, not that I am one but I do have an economic researcher mother:

Housing is on the rise - low interest rates
Stock Market - Bad financial earnings, poor accounting rules.  
Economy - yes it is a recession, but it is part of the business cycle to re-adjust itself after 10 years of expansion.

We can forget about the rest of the year, since the economic data for the world is dismal - US(dismal), Asia(dismal), Europe(a little biddy of hope).

Next year's forecast, wait till November.

Fear, uncertainty?  Of course there is, to some degree, uncertainty in the economy.

[This message has been edited by kes (edited 05-07-2002).]

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Morrolan
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« Reply #10 on: 05 July 2002, 22:35:00 pm »

i just love all those conspiracy theories! the creativity to think these things up is just amazing. these people should write books! or better yet, scripts for TV series... yeah, that's it! and then we'll call it, like, X-files... yeah! that sounds really cool!

can we talk about UFOs and cattle mutilations, too?

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"This isn't life in the fast lane, it's life in the oncoming traffic."

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want_to_believe
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« Reply #11 on: 06 July 2002, 9:35:00 am »

I wonder if anyone of  you has a clue of the economy. A weak dollar would help th USA alot as they import more as they they export at this time.There is absolutly no reason for the USA to keep the dollar that high .. in fact , it hurts the US economy. The US $ is only so high because it is still the most secure currency in the world. Or do You want to invest your money in rubel ?
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kes
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« Reply #12 on: 07 July 2002, 11:34:00 am »

I've seen the dollar as low as $1.60 to the SGD$, so considering that the dollar is presently at $1.76, it doesn't seem too bad.

A weak dollar does benefit the US.  It would mean cheaper US exports to the rest of the world; increase in employment in the US to meet export demands.

But it is not so much in the interest of the rest of the world to have a weak dollar: more expensive to export to the US.  Currently the US has the largest consumer market; I'm excluding China at the moment in terms of consumer spending power.  It would be in the interest of the rest of the world to have a slightly stronger dollar.  The French has a vested interest in terms of Vivendi because they own Universal Studios in the US.  Countries in Asia depend on manufacturing and services export to the US.  So with a weak dollar coupled with weak Asian and European economies, it is really not in anyone interests to have a weak dollar.

Though the US would like a weak dollar, it is also not in their interest because it would mean that importing 'vital' commodities such as oil would be expensive.  

Yes Bush is an oil man and can drill the oil in the US, but the oil industry in the US still depend largely on drilling oil in the Middle East and the North Sea.  A weak dollar would mean higher expenses in countries involved and no one wants the Americans to pull out their investments.

It's a circle alright.

[This message has been edited by kes (edited 07-07-2002).]

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