Japanese city 'rejects US base'

[confusedcious]

/// The US are becoming increasingly wary of China (15% increase in military spending last budget) ///

Azania, statistics taken in isolation do not mean anything.

If your 15% increase is taken from reuters (see 1st link below), total China defence spending for 2006 will amount to $35.3bn.

For FY2003, US defence budget is $379bn, plus $10bn reserve (see 2nd link below).  Assuming no budget overrun, the US spent in 2003 more than 10 times what China will spend in 2006.

The figures from CIA (assuming of course their figures are accurate and unbiased) for FY04 are $370.7bn for US and $67.5bn for China.  More than 5 times.

Now, I don't think the US military is 5 or 10 times the size of China.  I don't think its airspace, coastline, territory are 5 or 10 times of China's.

So, who is spending more on defence?  

Yes, 15% increase may seem like alot, but coming from a low base, it is loose change.  Example, last year A spent $100 on defence and this year A only increase it by 10% to $110.  B, OTOH, spent $10 in defence last year and increased it by 100% to $20 this year.  Wow, B's 100% increase is alarming.  And don't forget B got a much bigger area to defend, a bigger army to feed and equip.

http://www.financialexpress.com/latest_full_story.php?content_id=119471

http://www.janes.com/defence/news/jdw/jdw020205_1_n.shtml

[charlieb]

"...Japan does reciprocate to the US with some funding for the US defense of their country. Of course, in the event of conflict, the US lives lost couldn't be paid back..."

Looks like it's a raw deal for the US. Did know they could be so stupid.

[T2K]

You didn't?  Wake up and read the news.

We've got a Department of Homeland Security, a "War on Terror" and an open, undefended southern border that you can just walk across.

We've got thousands of soldiers defending Japan, South Korea and Germany (from who?) when we could use them better elsewhere.  Those countries can support their own defense burden.

We spend over US$2 Billion a year on aid to Israel and Egypt, and the Middle East is somehow still our fault and our problem.

We pay people "welfare" not to work and sit on their asses, while people that do work have lower net incomes due to taxes and having to pay for medical care.

We allow massive immigration from 3rd world ****holes, then don't even expect them to learn English or integrate into our country - that would somehow be racist.

Having said all that, we still do enough smart stuff to be the richest and most powerful country on the planet, but it won't last if we don't fix all of the above and more.

[Potemkin Cruise]

>> If you don't understand this incredibly superior logic I can honestly say -- and I swear to god this is true -- that I have never argued with someone as stupid as you before

Sorry dude.  Im not going to offer a mea culpa for pointing out the silliness of your one-sided view of the world and the gross errors in some of the historical arguments you raise to support that view.  I may well be wrong with what I say (and am happy to be corrected), but any logic at all would seem to be superior to yours, since you rarely deploy any in your posts.  If you think my arguments are wrong, why don't you try a different strategy for a change, and come up with a reasoned response that isn't constructed around insult, sarcasm, or half-baked historical "facts"?  

The ironic thing is that I basically agree with you that the US should remove its troops from any contry that doesn't want them (and to let the latter face the consequences), but you seem to want to fight no matter what I say --  you seem, that is, to have this pathological need to portrey the US and Americans as uniformly stupid or evil -- unable to see the world in shades of grey or to appreciate other points of view.  

Now that is certainly a failing of the current US administration (a point I am happy to admit), but the other ironic thing is that, by that same definition, you are as "American" as Bush.  Welcome to the club.

[charlieb]

"...we still do enough smart stuff to be the richest and most powerful country on the planet,..."

What would be some of these smart things?

[Bitko]

Like immigrating 3rd world ***holes from India to work in the Sillicon Valley. Not signing the Kyoto Protocal but rant about the Chinese Industries polluting the environment; beating up on Canada on lumber dispute are just tip of iceberg. I am sure the smarter folks on this forum can come up with a much much bigger list.  Oh oh, how could I forget about those damn Mexicans, they are so shameless, they forget that they have lost huge chunks of their country in many battles to the Americans; why can they just rot and die in their country from umemployment and poverty.

[T2K]

Reality TV/hip hop/Hollywood, the F-22 Raptor, foreign aid, Alan Greenspan, and the UN all represent keys to the kingdom.

Worthy of its own topic.  But, you're being a bad boy again, Charlie.  No more questions until you come up with some original thought of your own relating to the topic of Japan's military/foreign policy situation.

[charlieb]

I need to be amused sometimes, and you've never failed me.

[sct]

Japanese shield.  If anything happens with China the US will do absolutely nothing other than possibly leave very quickly, highly debatable whether they would do anything about North Korea - certainly not without China approving or at least looking the other way.  China and North Korea are nothing like Afghanistan or Iraq.  The US seems to have finally figured out wars are only a good idea (and that is highly debatable) if you can win them quickly and preferably mostly before any troops get hurt.  That is definitely not the case with China and N Korea not far behind.  If it is a shield then it is a symbolic one at best.

[T2K]

Little Charlie - As I've mentioned before, glad to help you out.  One day, when you are a big boy, you will be able to discuss things on the internet too.  For now, keep up the questions.

SCT - Not sure what types of scenarios you are envisioning.  A North Korean invasion of South Korea?  The US has over 30,000 troops along the DMZ and would defend South Korea, as it did in 1950 (no doubt taking many casualties).  Obviously, more troops would have to be sent.  The Chinese would not assist the North Koreans this time, too much to lose and nothing to gain.  Also, they learned in 1952 that manpower doesn't work against superior airpower and firepower.

Chinese action against Japan?  This could only be naval or air based.  Both are areas where the US would easily prevail with minimum casualties.  China doesn't have the force projection ability to actually try and invade Japan.

Nuclear?  Any use of nuclear weapons by North Korea or China would result in the same in return.  China wouldn't consider it, they are rational.  North Korea might, but once again nuclear retaliation is not one that would cost the US in manpower.

[charlieb]

But the US failed miserably in the Vietnam War...

[sct]

T2K - you answer some of your own questions.  If no-one around the region has the means to invade Japan then what is the defence force for - it is merely a symbolic gesture.

In terms of North Korea I don't expect the Chinese would intervene.  I would expect the US would make damn sure of the position though before attacking Pyongyang.  30,000 troops would not last very long at all - the North Koreans have 3/4 million troops just North plus hardware (ok - not as sophisticated as the US but plenty enough before re-inforcements arrive).  I also thinks any response would be much less able to rely on "shock and awe" before the troops need to move in.  Losses - should the US even be capable of winning without nuclear attacks which there is NO way they would use given proximity to China - would be huge and unacceptable to the US public.  I also doubt their previous dwindling supply of Allies would have any interest in joining in - even puppy dog Blair.  Even then, liberating the South and occupying the North would be different propositions.  Should the US retaliate by attempting occupation (I'm sure Bush would love this gi ven the axis of evil speech but doubt even he is that dumb) then China may not turn a blind eye after all.

I'm hopefully not envisioning either of these things.  China attacking Japan I think extremely unlikely.  North Korea into the South possible, China into Taiwan quite likely unfortunately.  This would raise many objections but no armed assistance whatsoever.

[confusedcious]

Dr Rice at it again: /// Noting that at the recent National Peoples Conference, the Chinese announced a 14 percent increase in RICE PRODUCTION, Ms. Rice said: "That's a lot, and China should undertake to be transparent about what that means." ///

China's economy is growing rapidly and accumulating too much surpluses.  If China doesn't spend enough, the pressure will be for the Yuan to appreciate, and guess who has been arm-twisting China to revalue its currency.

Yes, China should be transparent about its expenditure.  Should not just spend domestically.  Should use some of the surpluses to invest in the US to reduce the trade imbalances.  China should help the US economy by investing in US oil companies or US ports.

Or reduce the surpluses by buying cruise missiles, satellite-zapping missiles and aircraft carriers from the US instead of developing it locally and worsening the trade deficit situation.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/16/international/asia/16cnd-rice.html?_r=1&oref=slogin

[rubicond]

>> Ms. Rice criticizing its military expansion and the Australian warning against trying to "contain" Chinese ambitions.

These bloody Chins are too fuc|<ing ambitious!  

[so what]

Who really cares if China would or would not invade Japan, Taiwan or whatever crap country around the world.
They have already done so in Tibet, and all I see is a small club of long-haired grown old hippies complaining about that here and there.
The rest of the world yawns and sits back.

Chinese, Japanese, Taiwanese, Koreans and Vietnamese simply cannot be trusted.

You better have a base in any or all of those countries.
You can show off a bit with what murderous material you have at your disposal and you have an outpost to warn you in case sh*t happens.