america the bully

[nastiexpat]

Listening to the world today on BBC this morning, they interviewed some redneck moron at the state department and asked his view on the Spanish election...
As if he had a view..Moving along, what is amazing about this administration is that anyone dissenting with their fascist views, their paranoia about anything remotely middle eastern, is considered an ennemy.
Now, they claim, the bomb in Madrid turned the elections in favour of the socialists, so it is an Al Quaeda victory, bla bla bla and the propaganda goes on and on..The problem with americans is that they open their mouth before thinking.
Forget that from day one Aznar  said it was ETA, forget that 90% of Spaniards were against the war in Iraq, forget that 60% of Spaniards were already set to vote for the socialists.
Listening to that redneck, sounded like all spaniards were cowards, that they gave in to terrorists.
Instead it does not cross the mind of these imbeciles at the white house that the vote was against the unpopular policies of Aznar vis a vis the war in Iraq, a message that is frightening the Bush administration, the Berlusconi Administration, the Blair administration.
They have tried and almost succeded in linking terror to Iraq to justify the war and  stay in power. It would not surprise me if Bush links his re-election to a referendum on terrorism!

[Joseph27]

Hey you are either with us or against you bloody traitor - why do you go back to Kabul and pick up where you left off with your talihban pals

[Rich Kwik]

Hey Joseph... http://www.cafeshops.com/warposter

I'm sure there's one in there for your facist assss!

[nastiexpat]

traitor? moi?
Besides they did not have good gin and tonic in Kabul..I won't even mention the martinis....

[chococat]

nasty-

Forget what the American said, how do you think the Qaeda looks at the choices Spain has made since the bombings?  how do they interpret it?

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=4591197

[This message has been edited by chococat (edited 18-03-2004).]

[Bruno]

Let me get this straight.

``It does not cross the mind of these imbeciles at the white house that the vote was against the unpopular policies of Aznar vis a vis the war in Iraq.''

Yet,  Aznar's party was heading for victory before the bombing. So, the White House is full of imbeciles yet you can't grasp the most basic fact of the Spanish election.

Thanks, we'll call you.

[nikki m]

Bruno, Germans at one point thought Hitler was a jolly old fellow.  Trains always ran on time etc.
 Leadership isn't always popular nor is doing the right thing.  During the intial stages of WWII ( prior to pearl harbor) Americans didn't want anything to do with it, was that right?  Being right isn't always popular nor being popular always right.  Geez we all learned that in elementary school.  A real leader is willing to be unpopular to do what is moral, just and needed.  Democracy is a human right for everyone.

[Dr Opinion]

Fundamentally, Bruno, you're missing the point.

You can't claim Democracy and Freedom are good things and then complain when Democracy and Freedom result in free people who make decisions that are good for *them*, but differ from you!

For various real reasons, the Spanish people voted against the incumbent's party. Perhaps they blamed him for failing to protect them from terror attacks? Perhaps they blamed him for embroiling the nation in an unnecessary foreign war? Perhaps they simply want to concern themselves with matters that are actually important, like crime and education, instead of wasting time on costly oil expeditions.

It simply doesn't matter.

What is *good* is that here we see democracy *working*: people voting on the issues, and taking the future into their own hands.

The entire problem we see today in the ME is due to your attitude. America is scared that a Free and Democratic ME -- quite simply -- will vote to do things that are not in America's interest! So, we have relied on Dictators.

It's that simple.

If you really believe in Democracy and Freedom, you're just going to have to grow up and realize that most countries will end up differing with the narrow vested interests that control American politics.

At the extreme, of course, is the very real risk that that Bush's puppet-masters know this, that Gulf War II was fought simply to deny France, Russia and China access to the oil, and that Iraq will never be allowed Fredom and Democracy preceisely because she will inevitably then punish America for it's crimes and past support for Saddam.  

[nastiexpat]

what are you talking about Bruno?
You say: Yet, Aznar's party was heading for victory before the bombing.  I say maybe. We don't know. Polls are can be notoriously misleading

You say: So, the White House is full of imbeciles. I say yes big time imbeciles.

You say: yet you can't grasp the most basic fact of the Spanish election. I say: And your point is? I cannot understand what you are trying to tell me.
Please explain

[PhilM]

Apparently Aznar does not have a brother who could help him out by disenfranchising the Catalans and Basques and then tampering with the votes. You really would think his Buddy Bush should have taught him the basics of Democracy as practiced in the last US elections.

The Spanish people have said the main thing that turned then against Aznar in the polls was not Iraq or the bombing atrocity on March 12th; it was the fact he blatantly blamed the Basques for the atrocity without any proof in an attempt to swing more votes his way. Obviously his Buddy Bush did teach him how to lie regarding terrorism, he just didn’t teach him too well.

Of course it does not suit the USA or UK to admit Aznar screwed up, instead it suits their purpose far better to attribute it totally to the Spanish people bowing to terrorism. When I watch American and British politicians 99% of who have never risked their own hides accusing Spaniards of cowardice it just revolts me.

I guarantee it will only be a short while before other countries led by Poland and Holland also pull their troops out as their politicians are now openly referring to the fact Bush, Blair, Rumsfeld, Straw, Cheney, Powell, etc. all lied to them to get them involved. Read the following article it appears Rumsfeld was already talking of bombing Iraq on 9/11 plus there never was any evidence of WMD’s  given to Bush or Blair at ant time.
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=586&e=1&u=/nm/20040320/wl_nm/iraq_retaliation_dc

[Dr Opinion]

> "...You say: So, the White House is full of imbeciles..."

I don't think he really said that.  

[Dr Opinion]

> "...the Spanish people bowing to terrorism..."

Note that the new Spanish Government has indicated that it is perfectly happy to keep troops in Iraq, but only on a *legal* basis under International law. That is, if there is a UN resolution approving the deployment of troops to Iraq.

This is actually a far more telling. In effect, the Spanish Government is pointing out that there is no *mandate* for troops to be in Iraq.

It is an *illegal* action, sponsored by corporations, against the express wish of the peoples of the world. Scary stuff.  

[nastiexpat]

Shhhhht, Dr. Opinion, don't tell him that.....

[nastiexpat]

Seriously, we are really going through dangerous times. Yesterday there were millions pf people protesting worldwide. From Tokyo, Hong Kong, Manila, Sydney, All over Europe....Million and Millions saying no to war, no to aggression, no to terror.  
Whilst Bush was making one of his typical rhetorical speeches in Florida, to the chants of USA!USA! saying  "The world is counting on us to lead the cause of freedom and peace." How? By invading countries so as to settle old scores? by keeping childrens and innocent people in cages defying international laws? by ordering every "Aliens" to be fingerprinted and photographed?
By interfering in other countries internal affairs?  Criticizing the result of a democratic election, ridiculing spaniards for having the courage to say no to war, to lies, to violence?
Nothing is more dangerous than playing with the nationalistic feelings of ignroant people...

[nastiexpat]

Bruno, this is for you: Get it now?