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Author Topic: Brit coppers cock-up  (Read 1663 times)
??

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« on: 17 August 2005, 17:00:00 pm »

Blunders led to police killing of an innocent man

The Scotsman
17 August 2005

By ALASTAIR JAMIESON and CRAIG BROWN

Key points
• Leaked documents claim suspect was not running away when shot
• Earlier claims on suspect's dress and vaulting of barrier also challenged
• Revelations will add to embarrassment of Met Police over killing

Key quote
"As he walked out of my line of vision I checked the photographs and transmitted that it would be worth someone else having a look. I should point out that, as I observed this male exiting the block, I was in the process of relieving myself." - SURVEILLANCE OFFICER

AN INNOCENT man shot dead by police who mistook him for a suicide bomber was not running away from armed officers, was grabbed by them before being killed and was never adequately identified as a suspect, according to leaked police documents revealed last night.

Jean Charles de Menezes, a Brazilian electrician, stopped to pick up a newspaper and used a travelcard to pass through the ticket barrier of a London Tube station, according to witness statements obtained by ITV News - contradicting earlier claims that he had vaulted the barriers and sprinted down the escalators.

Mr de Menezes, 27, was shown wearing a blue denim jacket in forensic photographs obtained by the channel, as opposed to earlier claims that he was wearing a bulky winter coat before he was shot on board a Tube train. And one officer earlier failed to identify Mr de Menezes because he was "relieving himself" during the surveillance operation.

The extraordinary revelations will add to the embarrassment of the Metropolitan Police, which is already expected to have to pay more than £500,000 in compensation to the victim's family, and came as the force announced an expansion of its firearms unit to cope with the terrorism threat.

The leaked documents give a startling insight into blunders made during the surveillance operation on 22 July, the day after four attempted transport bombings in London.

Both surveillance and firearms officers had been using photos of suspects taken from a gym membership card found in one of the bombers' flats.

One surveillance officer admitted he could not identify Mr de Menezes because he was relieving himself as the Brazilian left his home - a block of flats in Tulse Hill where it was thought one of the bombers, Hussain Osman, lived.

"As he walked out of my line of vision I checked the photographs and transmitted that it would be worth someone else having a look. I should point out that, as I observed this male exiting the block, I was in the process of relieving myself.

"At this time I was not able to transmit my observations and switch on the video camera at the same time. There is therefore no video footage of this male."

A second officer also failed to give a positive identification but claimed the suspect had "distinctive Mongolian eyes".

While none of the officers was sure he was the suspect, they followed him as he caught a bus towards Stockwell. By this time, the officers became convinced he was the terrorist suspect and senior commanders declared a "Code Red" - handing the operation over to officers at the Metropolitan Police SO19 tactical firearms unit, who were given the task of apprehending Mr de Menezes - with permission to shoot if necessary.

SO19 was told he must not be allowed to enter a station, but the delay in identification meant Mr de Menezes had already gone into Stockwell Tube station when officers arrived. CCTV captured Mr de Menezes entering the station at a "normal walking pace", even collecting a free Metro newspaper, and slowly descending on an escalator.

"At some point near the bottom he is seen to run across the concourse ... and enter the carriage before sitting in an available seat. Almost simultaneously armed officers ... were provided with positive identification," the document says.

One eyewitness on the train said: "[Mr de Menezes] paused, looked right, looked left and then selected an empty seat."

But this contradicts earlier claims he ran all the way on to the train and refused to stop when officers shouted.

A man sitting opposite him on the Tube is quoted as saying: "Within a few seconds I saw a man coming into the double doors to my left. He was pointing a small black handgun towards a person sitting opposite me. He pointed the gun at the right-hand side of the man's head. The gun was within 12 inches of the man's head when the first shot was fired."

But a member of the surveillance team said in the report: "I heard shouting which included the word 'police', and turned to face the male in the denim jacket. He immediately stood up and advanced towards me and the SO19 officers ... I grabbed the male by wrapping both my arms around his torso, pinning his arms to his side.

"I then pushed him back on to the seat where he had been previously sitting ... I then heard a gunshot very close to my left ear and was dragged away on to the floor of the carriage."

The report also said a post-mortem examination showed Mr de Menezes was shot seven times in the head and once in the shoulder, but three other bullets missed, with the casings left lying in the Tube carriage.

Evidence of the incident should have been provided by CCTV footage from dozens of cameras covering the Stockwell ticket hall, escalators, platforms and train carriages, but police say most of the cameras were not working.

The botched operation is already the subject of an Independent Police Complaints Commission investigation. The commission is assessing whether rules for dealing with suspected suicide bombers were complied with, and whether Mr de Menezes was killed lawfully.

An inquest will also be held into the death, which has raised widespread concerns about the police's "shoot-to-kill policy".

A Home Office spokeswoman said: "It is not appropriate to comment while there is an ongoing investigation."

Harriet Wistrich, a lawyer for the de Menezes family, said: "I think it is absolutely shocking and terrifying. Shocking certainly in the sense that we now know that the information that was being put out at the start is false in many respects."

"For the family, they can now be absolutely assured that not only was he entirely innocent, but that he was doing nothing that should have warranted the police reaction. It's further shocking that even if he was the suspect, the police allowed him to travel on a bus.

"He was carrying nothing; he was wearing nothing that would suggest that he was hiding explosives. He was enabled to travel all the way down the escalators and get on to a Tube, and he was shot with the intention of killing him."

Scotland Yard said it could not comment while the IPCC investigation was ongoing.

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« on: 17 August 2005, 17:00:00 pm »



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Azania
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« Reply #1 on: 17 August 2005, 17:55:00 pm »

It never bodes well when a new member comes into the "talking point" area with a cut and paste job and no comment about where they stand on the topic.

It looks particularly dodgy when the member name they decide on is "? ?"

But on further searching, I see its not the first cut and paste job without comment.This shooting was debated long and hard on a number of threads on this site. It was a sad incident and I think the British Government will investigate it fully and punish anyone who deserves it.

I doubt they will stop the shoot-to-kill policy ,nor should they, because as was said on the other threads, if it had gone the other way, they would have been an uproar.

What do you think, OP?

[This message has been edited by Azania (edited 17-08-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Azania (edited 17-08-2005).]

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??

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« Reply #2 on: 17 August 2005, 18:58:00 pm »

Well Azania, as the title of the thread suggests, I think it was a massive blunder by the British police !
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God himself
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« Reply #3 on: 17 August 2005, 22:14:00 pm »

 
quote:

It was a sad incident and I think the British Government will investigate it fully and punish anyone who deserves it.

I wish I shared your confidence, Azania. The main problem is that the police are desperate to cover their asses and are unwilling to be of assistance to any investigators. Every day that passes you get new facts emerging about this.

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"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." <B>—George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004 </B>
Joseph27
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« Reply #4 on: 18 August 2005, 12:15:00 pm »

Hey the guy looked like he may have been a non anglo saxon so he pretty much deserved a bullet - cant take any chances these days.  

[This message has been edited by Joseph27 (edited 18-08-2005).]

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"truth is a group of metaphors, metonyms, and anthropomorphisms; a sum of human relation which is poetically and rhetorically intensified, metamorphosed and adored so that after a long time it is then codified in the binding canon."
EyeSpy
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« Reply #5 on: 18 August 2005, 14:08:00 pm »

Nice one J27
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Publius
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« Reply #6 on: 21 August 2005, 3:31:00 am »

The killing was a preventable yet understandable mistake considering what's been going on inside London in the last few weeks. The real murderers -the terrorists- ought to be blamed for this terrible accident. These things happen everywhere, in the US after 9/11 and in Israel even more frequently. What is unique is that it occurred in Britain.

For anyone but the victim, what is more troubling are the lies and the apparent cover-up by the police. This is absolutely inexcusable.

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??

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« Reply #7 on: 21 August 2005, 20:38:00 pm »

If the Brit police had done as much research on the brazilian guy as Azania did on me, this whole mess wouldn't have happened !

[This message has been edited by ?? (edited 21-08-2005).]

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Aubergine

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« Reply #8 on: 21 August 2005, 21:42:00 pm »

Email sent
titled: THE Stooge

Sir Ian Blair,

So you have been kept in the dark by your officers
about the shooting of an innocent man for 24 hours.

Does this mean that when you broadcast your
announcement worldwide that the Stockwell-shooting's
victim was indeed directly linked with London bombing,
you were, in fact, either lying through your teeth or
you were stating "facts"  that  were unverified,
unsubstantiated, unauthenticated?
To any sensible people, you certainly do not merit
your present position.

Very Sincerely,

[This message has been edited by Aubergine (edited 21-08-2005).]

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Azania
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« Reply #9 on: 22 August 2005, 0:39:00 am »

"??" - Just because you are paranoid does not mean we arent watching you.
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??

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« Reply #10 on: 22 August 2005, 16:03:00 pm »

Azania, forgot to take your meds ?
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kleverkljogs
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« Reply #11 on: 22 August 2005, 23:00:00 pm »

If you were to make a list of top ten idiot things people post here, right up there would be smart arse comments about meds, prozac etc.

It's about as funny original and fresh as a bad knock knock joke.

testa di cazzo

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