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ExpatSingapore Message Board 25 May 2012, 22:19:37 pm *
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Author Topic: Amrozi - to be or not to be?  (Read 602 times)
singkiwi

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« on: 08 August 2003, 9:41:00 am »

I heard an interesting report on the BBC last night, there was a lady (lost a relative in Bali bombing) that was against the death penalty for Amrozi. Her reasons were that because of his religon he believes he is going to paradise and is becoming a martyr, essentailly he wants to be executed. Interesting point.
So I have a couple of questions,
What are your thoughts, should he be executed or rot very slowly in a jail cell?
Secondly, is there a way for the muslim faith to strip him of any rights to paradise, basically within his religon label him as a murderer rather than a martyr? you can convert to a religon, can you be outcast from one?
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« on: 08 August 2003, 9:41:00 am »



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T2K
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« Reply #1 on: 08 August 2003, 16:18:00 pm »

Islam has no central authority.  One religious leader could condemn him (not sure if there is an excommunication procedure in Islam) but another could praise him and promise him paradise.  Which one do you think he would believe?

Since religion is just a belief system, it's easy to just ignore what you don't want to hear.  Not like having your passport revoked.

I could care less what he believes.  Seeing him dead will give a little comfort to the friends and relatives of those he helped kill, so that's about the best that can be hoped for.

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Mini Me
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« Reply #2 on: 08 August 2003, 19:34:00 pm »

Let him live. Make him clean women's latrines every day. Let women whip him, Let women beat him with metal bars. When his bones break, don't reset them. Let him limp. Let him suffer in pain every day. Make him the most insignificant c*nt that ever lived and for goodness sake, don't make him a martyr...
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Imagine
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« Reply #3 on: 08 August 2003, 21:28:00 pm »

Ultimate punishment:

Put him in one room with Antoine

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pacifist
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« Reply #4 on: 08 August 2003, 22:21:00 pm »

I wonder if killing this guy will change anything. It should be better to kill the desire to committ acts of terrorism. How to do that?
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Euro-Aussie
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« Reply #5 on: 13 August 2003, 22:23:00 pm »

A good lathering of pork fat would do nicely before the guy is shot.
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Joseph27
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« Reply #6 on: 14 August 2003, 11:44:00 am »

There are often quite a few intelligent conversations on this board and sad to see that this is not one of them.  

Personally I don’t care if Amrozi is killed - his death wont affect anything - indeed it will only work to benefit his cause, especially if you see him go to his death still smiling.  His death wont assuage the anger that we all feel for his participation in this act of bastardary.  No – show him to be wrong.

I was in Jakarta last week when the bomb went off - I came back yesterday from a 3 week stay in Indonesia where my wife and I celebrating our Muslim cum Javanese wedding.  Indonesia is a culturally rich and diverse country and the 'Amrozi's' only reflects a very small fringe of Indonesia's political discourse.  The victims last Tuesday were Indonesian’s – Muslims – and though a US linked building was defaced, Indonesia was the true victim.  This message needs to be constantly repeated, these so called Muslims need to be shown as vicious murders and not as a reflection of Islam.  Unfortunately the current political situation in Indonesia isn't as capable of doing this job – corruption is too rampant and the government is too ineffective.  

Most Indonesian's simply want to live their lives in peace – JI is an affront to these peoples lives.  Furthermore extremist Islam isn’t deeply imbedded in Indonesia and I strongly suspect that a good starting point would be to show these people for what they.  As much as certain xenophobes would disagree – Islam is not about violence in fact a true Muslim deplores violence.  Terrorist groups saying that they represent Islam are purely basing this on an expedient way to recruit the disenfranchised and the terror network in Indonesia is simply a collection of murders.

Every country has its fringe and certain controversial voices speak out to these peoples concerns.  Think about the extreme right wing in America and Australia – these people are often simply dismissed as lunatics.  Their politics are spoken of in child like terms as though they simply don't understand how society actually works.

Give guys like Amrozi or Bashir a chance to be interviewed – their desired goal is to have a very traditional Islamic society – something akin to Afghanistan during the Taliban regime.  Show the flaws in their desired goals – let people know what sympathy for these people means.  

Amrozi is too simple to have organised the Bali bombing himself though he certainly shares a big part of the blame.  In Chess one often sacrifices a piece for position – Amrozi is a pawn – and killing him wont strengthen our position, indeed Amrozi may serve his masters better dead than alive, so leave him alive in prison.

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"truth is a group of metaphors, metonyms, and anthropomorphisms; a sum of human relation which is poetically and rhetorically intensified, metamorphosed and adored so that after a long time it is then codified in the binding canon."
Imagine
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« Reply #7 on: 14 August 2003, 17:14:00 pm »

Joseph,

Welcome back and congratulations with the wedding.  

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Joseph27
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« Reply #8 on: 14 August 2003, 20:02:00 pm »

Thanks Imagine

I seemed to have mellowed over the past few weeks.  I can honestly tell that I have a new found appreciation for the Javanese and their ceremonies  -  SO SO MANY THINGS TO DO

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"truth is a group of metaphors, metonyms, and anthropomorphisms; a sum of human relation which is poetically and rhetorically intensified, metamorphosed and adored so that after a long time it is then codified in the binding canon."
jackie
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« Reply #9 on: 14 August 2003, 23:27:00 pm »

I think the ultimate punishment would be to put him in a room full of horny dogs first and then after the dogs have loved that scumbag to death bring the pigs in and let them make a meal of him. The idea of putting pork fat on his smiling face sounds good also. Or why not stuff bacon sarnies down his smiling trap!!!
Better still just put the scumbag in a room with the relatives of the poor victims who lost their lives that night. Instant death is just too good for IT. (i can't call amrozi a real person) I personally think all the smiling he does is just an act. I was going to say he was putting on a brave face but he is a **** faced coward and he will cack his little pants when he is blindfolded and faced with the firing squad!!. But seeing as though he enjoys smiling so much i think someone should give him the look of the Joker out of the Batman Movies and carve a permanent smile upon his face.
If Amrozi is as proud as his smile shows about what he has done then why didn't the SOB just step forward in the first place instead of waiting to be caught.
He, along with his accomplicies are scum.
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jackie
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« Reply #10 on: 14 August 2003, 23:34:00 pm »

Maybe we could send him on an expat womens hen night!!!. We could get him pissed at a club where the drag artists took a shine to him then leave him in their hands til morning. Or we could get him pissed and tie him to a lampost and let the dogs piss all over him!! then take him for a good ole greasy bacon sandwich when we untied him the next morning.
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Euro-Aussie
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« Reply #11 on: 15 August 2003, 2:18:00 am »

Joseph, I'm probably one of the few people here who tend to agree with you most of the time, but I think your statement of there not being any intelligent input in this topic is misguided.

Allow people to vent their anger at what a madman has done, and don't criricise them for doing so.  Whether or not his death will change anything is largely irrelevant as there will be one less scumbag on this earth after this mother****er has been done away with.  

These are not anti-Javanese statements, they are anti-Amrozi and his ilk.  

As far as I am concerned they can all rot in hell for destroying innocent lives and causing indescribeable grief to their families.  

I am certainly against the death peanlty in the vast majority of cases, but this guy deserves it, whether or not it will benefit his cause.  

Congratulations on your wedding and sympathies that the Jakarta bombing will make it memorable for more than just the happy occasion it is.  

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Joseph27
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« Reply #12 on: 15 August 2003, 11:14:00 am »

Euro-Aussie - your comments are understandable.  My wife and I last night discussed this very issue and she agreed that he should be shot whilst I am still more for a life time of solitary confinement for him.  

The biggest problem with my solution is that Indonesian politics are not conducive to ensuring that he does actually stay in prison for ever and with a change in regime he maybe freed later - or even become a hero.  So death is not necassily the wrong thing.  

In terms of venting anger - ok ok - let me join you - In solitary confinement 2 x 3 metre cell - no windows - no toilet and locked down every day with a pig - where they can feed together - sleep together - **** together - for the term of his natural life.  Now the only problem is finding a pig that has commited a crime sufficent to put in a cell with Amrozi  

Seriously we are all angry - these crimes are vicious and deliberately targeted to hurt as many people as possible.  We must punish these murderers - maybe a bullet is expedient but then again personally a life time in a dark cage is much more terrifying.   I am easy in this case - either way I am happy as long as that anjing is appropriately punished

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"truth is a group of metaphors, metonyms, and anthropomorphisms; a sum of human relation which is poetically and rhetorically intensified, metamorphosed and adored so that after a long time it is then codified in the binding canon."
skank
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« Reply #13 on: 15 August 2003, 14:00:00 pm »

Proper Punishment is:
Send him to one of those great hospitals in Bangkok, turn him into a woman & send him to live in a Taleban controlled area of Afghanistan.
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Fresh Mint
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« Reply #14 on: 15 August 2003, 20:04:00 pm »

With Antoine...
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