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Author Topic: American freedom - help me out here!  (Read 1186 times)
rubicond
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« on: 01 July 2005, 17:37:00 pm »

What I find hilarious, is that Americans always talk about how much freedom they have ('America stands for freedom', 'the land on the free', etc.). As a European, I find that Europe has much more freedom than America.

I think that this firm belief of the American people that their land is the freest (i.e. most free) in the world is caused by the propaganda that constantly repeats this bullsh1t. This is the same propaganda that made them support the invasion of Iraq, and of all the other countries the US invaded in the last 60 years or so. As a good (or even excellent!) world citizen, I thought about trying to make them see the truth, by setting up a site (at ***, because I am also very poor) with the list of freedoms that they don't have, and that we Europeans have.

Are you following me so far?

The problem is that I don't have time to delve into it. I wonder if you have some time to give me your ideas. I can then put them all together and put them on a site. To make the exercise funnier and easier, we should include things that are forbidden in any US state, and allowed in any EU member state.

So, here it comes:

1. In Europe (e.g. in Spain) gay people can marry, in the US not.

2. In Europe (e.g. in the Netherlands) one can legally buy marihuana, in the US not.

3. In Europe (e.g. in Germany) foreigners can vote in local elections.

4. In Europe 18 years old can drink alcohol. (isn't it 21 in the US?).

5. In Europe gay man can have gay sex, in the US not (It's true! You can actually go to prison for sodomy!)

6. In Europe you can have a tatoo on your body, in the US not (I think in Utah)

7. In the US people can be arrested and held in prison indefinitely without charge. In Europe not. (though the US in this aspect too is similar to north Korea).

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« on: 01 July 2005, 17:37:00 pm »



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tweek
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« Reply #1 on: 01 July 2005, 17:53:00 pm »

Just out of curiousity:

-- can you actually provide the number of gay men who are currently in prison for sodomy in the US?

-- Do you really think no one in the state of Utah has a tattoo on their body?? Seriously?? (btw, can't say I've ever heard of that law, where did you come across it?)

-- "In the US people can be arrested and held in prison indefinitely without charge." - and, where did you come up with this one, exactly? I suspect you are referring to the situation in Guantanamo Bay, but for better or worse that situation doesn't fall under the laws of the US justice system, so you can't really compare the two.

And, just as further comment, being able to legally buy marijuana and/or legally drink at the age of 18 makes for a better place to live??

OK. If you say so.

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rubicond
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« Reply #2 on: 01 July 2005, 18:00:00 pm »

1. Maybe nobody, but that's not the point. I heard an interview of a guy who was arrested because a plain-closed policeman said: 'let's have sex' and when the guy said: 'ok', he was arrested. Not really 'the land of the free' is it?

2. Surely many people have them, but it's illegal. I don't know where I heard it, but I heard it a few times, so I believe it's true. Though I don't actually know if it's enforced.

3. And why not exactly?

4. Maybe not better, but freer. The thread is about freedom, not about betterness (sp?)

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T2K
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« Reply #3 on: 01 July 2005, 18:14:00 pm »

I like your double standards.  So, if I name anything that is legal in any US state, and is illegal in any European state, that defines both places?

1.  Gay marriage is not a good thing.  Gay civil unions are, giving the same legal right as marriage but not trying to normalize something that is abnormal.  If gay unions were normal, the human species would die out.  Regardless, gay marriages are legal in some US states, and illegal in some European states, so you have no point. Tie.

2.  But we can buy guns, and Euroid girly men can't. Tie.

3.  This is ridiculous, of course foreigners can't vote in local elections.  Most of the world has enough common sense to know this.  Europe loses, -1.

4.  Agreed.  Drinking age of 21 is stupid.  US loses, -1

5.  In the US gay men can have sex or whatever, as long as children aren't involved.  You are wrong.  Tie

6.  You can have a tatoo anywhere on your body in any state.  You are wrong, again.  Tie

7.  Habeus Corpus means that criminals cannot be held without charges or trial in the US.  You are wrong again.  I dount some of your newer EU members have these protections, to be honest, but I don't feel like researching it.  Tie

I'll add a couple.

8.  In Europe you must pay exorbitant taxes which can reach over 60% (DK), like a medieval peasant that gives all his earnings to his overlord.  US taxes are reasonable so that you are free to use your earnings as you see fit.  Europe loses, -1.

9.  In the US you have the right to free speech and expression.  In the EU (DE) ideological symbols considered offensive  are banned. Europe loses, -1.

I could go on, but the game is over, so why bother?

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El Marlin

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« Reply #4 on: 01 July 2005, 19:13:00 pm »

I must admit, Utah isn't exactly like the rest of the US, but a law against tattoos???  Wow, haven't heard that one yet...

However, I do agree with you about the overuse of the term "freedom" in America's New Speak.  I'm also a bit concerned about the direction my country of birth is headed.

That being said, I will still celebrate the 4th of July!  Not for the terminology, but for good memories of a more innocent time in my life and my nation's history.

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so what
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« Reply #5 on: 01 July 2005, 22:12:00 pm »

Rubicond,

You really want us to take you seriously?

"Surely many people have them, but it's illegal."
(here you claim it is a fact)

"I don't know where I heard it, but I heard it a few times, so I believe it's true."
(here you believe it is a fact)

"Though I don't actually know if it's enforced."
(fact is... you have no idea)

[This message has been edited by so what (edited 01-07-2005).]

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nikki m
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« Reply #6 on: 01 July 2005, 22:50:00 pm »

There are laws still on the books as they say from back in the early 1800's that are not enforced.  SLC has the nations largest gay bar and it is the home of the LDS church for heavens sake.
 America is the home of the free i.e each person regardless of their first family can be and do anything their brains and desires take them.  After all Bill Clinton was the offspring of poor white trash and look where he went and what he did?  Doesn't matter what black dot on a roadmap one is from or who your parents are How your story evolves is up to you.  
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nikki
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« Reply #7 on: 02 July 2005, 2:28:00 am »

OP -  "I don't know where I heard it, but I heard it a few times, so I believe it's true."

Im with you. I said to Elvis just the other day when we were having lunch at Jim Morrison's place you must be a real clever dude.

Then we prayed for the lady who left her baby to dry in the microwave, discussed if we ever really would get someone to the moon, and all those other interesting stories in life that must be true because someone said it was.

Then we got onto the topic you raised about the fact that the US is the only country in the world to have strange laws, but funnily enough, Jim knew of some others, that are on the books but seldom implemented:

In Samoa, it's a crime to forget your wife's birthday.

In Australia, it's illegal to name any animal you plan to eat.

In Cannes, France, it's illegal to wear a Jerry Lewis mask.

In Portugal, it's against the law to pee in the ocean.

In Italy, anyone considered "obese" is forbidden from wearing polyester.

In Lebanon, the men legally can have sexual relationships with animals, but
they have to be female.

In Bahrain, a doctor legally can examine the feminine intimate parts of the body, but he is prohibited to look directly at her during the exam.
He can just look through a mirror

In Hong Kong, a betrayed woman legally can kill her adulterous husband,
but only with her hands.

In Cali, in Colombia, a woman can only have relationships with her husband,
and on the first time, her mother is in the room to testify the action.

England .. All English males over the age 14 are to carry out 2 or so hours of longbow practice a week supervised by the local clergy.

England .. Any person found breaking a boiled egg at the sharp end will be sentenced to 24 hours in the village stocks

England .. It is illegal to stand within one hundred yards of the reigning monarch when not wearing socks

England .. Placing a postage stamp that bears the Queen (or King) upside down is considered treason

Chester, England .. You can only shoot a Welsh person with a bow and arrow inside the city walls and after midnight.

Scotland .. It is illegal to be a drunk in possession of a cow.

Singapore .. If you are convicted of littering three times, you will have to clean the streets on Sundays with a bib on saying,"I am a litterer." This will then be broadcasted on the local news.

South Korea .. Traffic police are required to report all bribes that they receive from motorists

Switzerland .. A man may not relieve himself while standing up, after 10 P.M.

Australia .. Under Australian Communications Authority (ACA) regulations, a modem can't pick up on the first ring. If it does the, ACA permit for your modem is invalid and there's a $12,000 fine

British Columbia, Canada .. It is illegal to kill a sasquatch

Alberta, Canada .. If you are released from prison, it is required that you are given a handgun with bullets and a horse, so you can ride out of town.

Uxbridge, Canada .. Residents are not allowed to have an Internet connection faster than 56k

Beijing, China .. Drivers of power-driven vehicles who stop at pedestrian crossings are liable to a fine of up to five yuan, or a warning.

In London, Hackney taxis must carry a bale of hay and a sack of oats.

It is illegal to be drunk in a pub or club, or any other licensed premises.

Oddly, it is illegal to consume a mince pie on Christmas Day.

In Hereford, you may not shoot a Welsh person on Sunday with a longbow in the Cathedral Close.

However, in Chester you can only shoot a Welsh person with a bow and arrow inside the city walls and after midnight.

Also in York, excluding Sundays, it is apparently legal to shoot a Scotsman with a bow and arrow.

In Liverpool, it is illegal for a woman to be topless in public unless they are a clerk in a tropical fish store.

It is illegal for a Member of Parliament to enter the House of Commons wearing a full coat of armour.

Sleeping with a consort of the queen is classified as treason, and as such carries a maximum penalty of death.

Placing a postage stamp of the queen upside down, is also considered treason.

It is unlawful to impersonate an Chelsea pensioner.

It is illegal to sell most goods on a Sunday. It is however legal to sell a carrot. It is also legal to sell it at any price, and to give free gifts with it, such as anything else one might want to buy on a Sunday.

all English males over the age of 14 are to carry out approximately two hours of longbow practice a week, supervised by the local clergy.

Australia
It is illegal to roam the streets wearing black clothes, felt shoes and have black shoe polish on your face as these are the items of an cat burglar.

It is illegal to walk on the right hand side of the pavement.

Taxi cabs are required to carry a bale of hay in the trunk.

In Victoria, it is illegal to wear hot pink shorts after midday on a Sunday.

Canada
In Alberta, there is a city law that states that any person being released from prison must be given a handgun with bullets, and a horse so that they can ride out of town.

In British Colombia, it is illegal to kill a sasquatch.

In New Brunswick, driving on the roads is not permitted.

In Etobicoke, the bylaw states that ‘no more than 3.5 inches of water is allowed in a bathtub’.

Guelph, is an official ‘NO-PEE’ zone.

In Toronto, it is illegal to drag a dead horse down Yonge Street on a Sunday.

Denmark
Before starting your car, you are legally required to make an visual check to make sure there are no children underneath your car.

When driving, you must have someone in front of your car with a flag, to warn horse drawn carriages that a car is coming.

Scotland
It is illegal to be drunk and in possession of a cow.

For some crimes, you are presumed guilty until proven innocent.

Switzerland
It is illegal to flush the toilet after 10pm if you live in an apartment.

A man may not relieve himself while standing up, after 10pm.

Thailand
It is illegal to step on any of the nations currency.

It is illegal to leave the house if you are not wearing underwear.


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rubicond
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« Reply #8 on: 02 July 2005, 10:10:00 am »

I am sorry, it is in South Carolina that tattoos are illegal: http://www.aaatattoodirectory.com/tattoo_regulations.htm,  while in most states it's illegal to tattoo a minor.
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so what
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« Reply #9 on: 02 July 2005, 11:35:00 am »

Rubicond,

However you twist it, you are wrong.

Having a tattoo is NOT illegal.

Your claim:
"In Europe you can HAVE a tatoo on your body, in the US not "

S. Carolina Code of Laws:
"It is unlawful for a person to tattoo any part of the body of another person. It is not unlawful for a licensed physician or surgeon to tattoo part of a patient's body if in his medical opinion it is necessary when performing cosmetic or reconstructive surgery."

[This message has been edited by so what (edited 02-07-2005).]

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rubicond
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« Reply #10 on: 02 July 2005, 11:53:00 am »

I said South Carolina, not S. California.
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so what
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« Reply #11 on: 02 July 2005, 12:12:00 pm »

Ammended for your better comprehension
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rubicond
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« Reply #12 on: 02 July 2005, 13:04:00 pm »

Thanks! Can you give a link to that S. Carolina Code of Laws article?
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rubicond
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« Reply #13 on: 02 July 2005, 13:08:00 pm »

nikki m:
America is the home of the free i.e each person regardless of their first family can be and do anything their brains and desires take them.
Same in Europe. Berlusconi was a singer on cruises, and now he is the richest man in Italy, and one of the richest men in Europe. I know he is a crook, but aren't all billionairs and politicians crooks? In every country in the world each person regardless of their first family can be and do anything their brains and desires take them. What might hold people back might the culture and the values, but there is certainly nothing in the laws that stops them from doing anything their brains and desires take them.
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so what
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« Reply #14 on: 02 July 2005, 13:16:00 pm »

 http://www.scstatehouse.net/code/t16c017.htm

Section 16-17-700

and
http://www.scstatehouse.net/code/t44c034.htm

And if you still cannot admit that you were simply wrong, then I am convinced that you are French after all.

[This message has been edited by so what (edited 02-07-2005).]

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