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ExpatSingapore Message Board 25 May 2012, 22:41:18 pm *
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Author Topic: American freedom - help me out here!  (Read 1186 times)
tweek
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« Reply #15 on: 02 July 2005, 13:19:00 pm »

 
quote:
but aren't all billionairs and politicians crooks?

Well, aren't you just the king (or queen) of stereotypes and blanket assumptions??

It's ridiculous to assume that all billionaires and politicians are crooks. Not everyone achieves success dishonestly.

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« Reply #15 on: 02 July 2005, 13:19:00 pm »



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rubicond
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« Reply #16 on: 02 July 2005, 13:30:00 pm »

OK, I was wrong.  

It happens to the best of us!  

So, let me rephrase it:

In South Carolina The department does not grant or issue a license to a tattoo facility, if the place of business is within one thousand feet of a church, school, or playground. In Europe yes.

Does that satisfy so what?

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tweek
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« Reply #17 on: 02 July 2005, 13:31:00 pm »

With regard to the SC law:

"It is unlawful for a person to tattoo any part of the body of another person unless the tattoo artist meets the requirements of Chapter 34 of Title 44."

Sounds to me like the state is saying any unqualified Tom, Dick or Harry isn't allowed to open up a tattoo parlor and start tattooing the masses. Sounds reasonable to me -- seems to be a law that is designed to protect unknowing citizens from being harmed by people who aren't qualified to give tattoos NOT a law designed to keep citizens from getting tattoos at all.

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rubicond
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« Reply #18 on: 02 July 2005, 13:48:00 pm »

I agree, se my previous comment.
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so what
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« Reply #19 on: 02 July 2005, 17:44:00 pm »

yes, that satisfies me. You are beyond any doubt French.

Besides that, the regulations for europe will change by 2006 http://www.ehj-online.com/archive/2000/september2003/september7.html

Seems to me S. Carolina is one step ahead of Europe?

[This message has been edited by so what (edited 02-07-2005).]

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Azania
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« Reply #20 on: 02 July 2005, 18:35:00 pm »

OP - You seriously are quite strange. As you dig the hole deeper and deeper, you narrow your options more and more.

So from making a rather stupid opening gambit comprising of some generalised   statements with an anti-American slant, mostly about obscure laws which are not followed, you are slowly backing away and covering yourself by changing your stance constantly.

Now we are down to an obscure law in South Carolina regarding tattoos.

Firstly, as I pointed out in my other post, there are strange laws in every country in the world, some still apply, some are just not off the various books of statute.

You did this in your mildly anti-British post about the Trafalgar celebrations. Every time someone proved you wrong, you simply ignored it or denied it or changed the subject.

You tout yourself as a European, yet when people question you on it, you don't come clean. Are you ashamed of your nationality?

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rubicond
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« Reply #21 on: 02 July 2005, 19:16:00 pm »

Azania, ...obscure laws which are not followed...
Funny comment, coming from someone who copy-pasted a 20 pages long list of `obscure laws which are not followed`    

The ...obscure law in South Carolina regarding tattoos... is exactly along the lines of the message you posted    

I was exactly trying to avoid these silly laws, by listing things that are rather important. Believe it or not, but to gay people it is important to marry and have sex. Believe it or not, it is also important to vote at local elections. And lastly, believe it or not, but it is important to have access to a lawyer and have the right for a fair trial, rather than spending years in prison and be tortured, and then be released without charge because you are 100% innocent.@Obviously you don`t believe that these things are important...

It`s fine as long as it doesn`t happen to you?

Believe it or not, but in Europe we don`t consider the laws that guarantee the freedom of people as `obscure and never followed`. Get a life!


[This message has been edited by rubicond (edited 02-07-2005).]

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so what
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« Reply #22 on: 02 July 2005, 20:02:00 pm »

"It happens to the best of us!"

Good grieve! Are you saying there are more people like you?

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tweek
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« Reply #23 on: 02 July 2005, 21:36:00 pm »

"Believe it or not, it is also important to vote at local elections"

If you are not a citizen of the country, why would you expect to be allowed to vote in their elections?? Seems silly to think non-citizens should be granted voting priveleges. If you want to vote in some other country than your own, obtain citizenship.

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Azania
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« Reply #24 on: 02 July 2005, 23:58:00 pm »

OP - Problem with you is how selective you are in your attempts to rubbish the US. Lets look at your comments one by one:

"In Europe (e.g. in Spain) gay people can marry, in the US not."

Spain becomes only the third country to legalize ‘gay marriage’ Jun 30, 2005

The measure makes Spain the third country, along with Belgium and the Netherlands, to legalize “same-sex marriage” nationwide. Considering the fact that Europe consists of 25-odd countries now, that makes your statement less than accurate


"2. In Europe (e.g. in the Netherlands) one can legally buy marihuana, in the US not. "

Yes, that is partially true. Strictly regualted coffeeeshops can sell small quantaties for personal use. They also allow pharmacies to sell medical marijuana.

Strangely enough, the US was also allowing medical marijuana usuage on prescription until the Supreme Court overturned it rcently. But it made the US one of the countries at the forefront of liberal thinking in that regard, which kind of goes against the main thrust of your thread.

"3. In Europe (e.g. in Germany) foreigners can vote in local elections."

Once again, you are using the example of one of many European contries to make it appear community-wide.

Two things to consider:

According to the German Basic Law - the nation's constitution - foreigners must spend at least eight years in the country to be eligible to vote, prove their command of the German language and "acceptance and knowledge" of the constitution to qualify as a citizen.

But even after meeting these standards, a large proportion of foreigners are still denied from becoming Germans.

Nilfur Shayegan, 34 was born and brought up in Frankfurt after her parents left Iran in the fifties. She is one of the many 'Germans' who cannot vote. She first applied for citizenship when she was 18. She was denied a German passport two more times and gave up trying.

Secondly, if one uses your selective form of writing, I could argue that Maryland,USA allows non-US nationals to vote in local elections. That is true, but like your statements about Europe, is not indicative of a national trend.

"4. In Europe 18 years old can drink alcohol. (isn't it 21 in the US?)."

Yes. So what ? Not big things to worry about. If I were you and I were wanting to "have a go" at different countries ways of life, this is a legal age limit list I would be more concerned about, rather than legal drinking age
             
Malta           12
México         12  
Monaco        15
Montenegro 14  
Morocco       15            
Netherlands 12/16  
New Caledonia 15
Nigeria         13  
Panama        12/18?        
Paraquay     12      
Peru             14      
Philippines    12/18  


This is a selection of rather more scary "legal ages of consent" from some of the countries you decided not to criticise.
(Where two ages are shown it is because sexual activity is legal at the lower age unless the younger person subsequently complains)


"5. In Europe gay man can have gay sex, in the US not (It's true! You can actually go to prison for sodomy!)"

The U.S. Supreme Court ruled 6-3 that sodomy laws are unconstitutional on June 26, 2003.

"6. In Europe you can have a tatoo on your body, in the US not (I think in Utah)"

I think various posts have already blown this one out of the water.

7. In the US people can be arrested and held in prison indefinitely without charge. In Europe not. (though the US in this aspect too is similar to north Korea).

The only one I would say has some merit , although to only mention North Korea as a possible perpetrator of this is to deny the dozens and dozens of countries around the world that practice this. Also, if you were as worldly wise as you like to think, you would realise that ANY country, developed European or 3rd world, can and does make enemies of the state disappear without trace if it is in their interest.

Lastly, my list of weird laws from around the world was to show the strangeness of various legal systems, and was meant to be tongue in cheek. However, if you ever find yourself in Chester after midnight wearing a Plaid Cymru T-shirt, be aware, I am a crack shot with a compound bow.

Most shallow man,thou hath not so much brain as ear wax,and your bait of falsehood takes this carp of truth.

I will most humbly take my leave of you, and breathe defiance to thine ears, for thou art like the toad, ugly and venomous.

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CBetty98

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« Reply #25 on: 08 July 2005, 18:03:00 pm »


Could I just confirm, is it possible for a US citizen to travel to Cuba without being arrested ?  

Why doesn't Cuba show up on expedia.com ?

What is the 'Patriot act' ?

What defines a free country to a US citizen ?
All you can eat at IHOP ?

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tweek
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« Reply #26 on: 08 July 2005, 20:26:00 pm »

 
quote:
What defines a free country to a US citizen ?
All you can eat at IHOP ?

Is that supposed to be funny or are you serious?

Do a google on the Patriot Act - you should get more than enough info that way.

As far as Cuba & expedia - well, since expedia is generally used for booking airline reservations and US airlines don't make commercial trips to Cuba, why would it be listed?

I doubt US citizens are arrested for going to Cuba. Weren't there a bunch of entertainers and maybe some politicians who went fairly recently? Who would do the arresting anyway?

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Panama Hat
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« Reply #27 on: 27 July 2005, 15:45:00 pm »

"Who would do the arresting anyway?"

I believe the charges would be laid upon return to the land of the free and the home of the brave.  

Yes, it has happened, but I think immigration are looking the other way even for businesspeople returning from Cuba.  

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sct
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« Reply #28 on: 27 July 2005, 18:44:00 pm »

While I don't think much of Rubiconds arguments, I do agree with his sentiment.  America does tout itself as the land of the free etc. when it does appear less so than some places.  The Clinton point is spurious, Margaret Thatcher was the daughter of a grocer, US still has not had a female president (roll on next election...).  Given the US population - when will we see a Hispanic/ African American Pres?  While anyone may stand for office in the US, minus a truck full of cash they are not going to get anywhere these days.  Under Blair UK is getting less free by the minute anyway so they have nothing to boast about anyway - currently have curfews for under 16s in some places.  

Regardless, freedom to stand for office may be nice but I think most peoples concern is to be allowed to go about their daily business without intervention.  In that respect there are many countries at least on a par with the US.

Also, some of the items such as Habeus Corpus I believe protect only citzens, does not apply to overseas people on US soil, that is a major breach of freedom.

Undoubtedly the US is one of the free-er countries in the world. It also gives the impression it pioneered freedom - it was a very long way behind in this aspect.  I think Rubicond's point is it is just not quite so free/first there as it likes to proclaim, not that it isn't a free country.

[This message has been edited by sct (edited 27-07-2005).]

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rubicond
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« Reply #29 on: 29 July 2005, 15:09:00 pm »

'Rubicond's point is it is just not quite so free/first there as it likes to proclaim, not that it isn't a free country.'

You got it!

And I think the EU is freer than the US. Especially with this patriot act, which is just a propaganda name to reduce the freedom of the US people.

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