Censorship

[Casey]

Hi,

I just read a post (not mine) on the Social board where somebody (unregistered) brought up the topic of censorship on this board.

The BM replied and said that this person should "register and discuss this at the 'Talking Point' Forum".

As this is a topic that is continually rearing it's head I thought it would probably make a good talking point.

So - my question is - what do you think about the censorship on this board - is it fair?

[T2K]

My opinion is - yes censorship on this board is fair.

Oh, you want reasons too I guess.

This board is not a public service or an inalienable right to its users.  It's a service and a business.  As such it's proprietor has every right to regulate and moderate it as he sees fit to make it successful.  

Without censorship it's intended service may be compromised.  Also, with too much censorship the same thing may happen.  The BM has to walk that line, and I reckon he's well aware of it.

I tend to get more into political/historical/foreign policy type of debates a on this board - plus anything to do with SPG's.  (Although I've been to a few board happy hours too, and have probably unknowingly shared space at bars with lots of other board users.)  Anyway, despite the inherent controversy associated with these kinds of topics, the discussion has never been curtailed too much by censorship.  Usually it gets cut off when everyone resorts to insulting each other - fair enough.

[chilli crab]

I agree that the BM should moderate the board - after all as he frequently points out it is HIS board and he can do what he likes.  However, I agree with others that he should keep out of the discussions as I have noticed that he has made some very scathing remarks which get users angry and worked up and he also has a tendency take any kind of suggestion personally and against him rather than as a means to help him.  What does worry me is that although I agree with censoring topics of discussion and the taking out of anything racist/offensive etc etc I find that since using this board it is clear that one group of posters are prefered to others and that the board is in danger of becoming elitist.  I know that certain events can be posted for all to see and go to but others are not - this is a shame as I think that the information provided should be unbiased.  Often people are genuinely trying to help each other with suggestions about places to go and venues to visit and they get deleted.  On the other hand I know that this is a business and Mr BM wants as much revenue as possible.  It is a difficult situation.

In my office there are about 35 expats who initially recommended the board to me when I first arrived.  However, they also told me that in their opinion the board had changed in the past year it wasn't as good as it used to be. Posts deleted for apparently no reason, nasty posters, people getting angry and wound up and less informative information regarding places to go and events.  Maybe it's time for the BM to take notice of users comments and use them to better the board - that way he can increase revenue and attract more users.

[Junebug]

I originally didn't want to get involved in this discussion, but anyway... Here goes.

I think it is an extremely difficult job to moderate a messageboard - where do you draw the line? What is appropriate, what is acceptable and what is not. I think sometimes it's a very hard call.

If for the dozenth time a person tries to post items worth more than S$ 300 in the Buying and Selling Section you do start to get angry. It is time consuming and often nerve-wracking to deal with 'complicated' people, be it someone who tries to get around the advertising fee (which in my opinion is at an absolute acceptable rate), be it someone who attacks single persons (for no apparent reason), be it someone who writes sexist or otherwise offensive things.

As for the thought that the quality of the board is going downhill - it's always what you make of it. The more people are on the board, the more 'difficult' people there will be. If you don't like what a certain person says, than just ignore it. Problem is, that many people (including myself) always catch the bait instead of standing back and just letting it pass.

It is always easy to criticise but I think that when push comes to shove and any one of the people criticising would have to take over the job of moderating this messageboard almost everyone would say no thanks.

As to the fear, that this messageboard is becoming elitist I really wonder what you mean? I have been on this messageboard since December 2000 - yes I post a lot and no, my posts usually don't get deleted. The fact that they don't get deleted is because they are usually 'neutral', sometimes opinionated, sure but never in an offensive way.

I know one of the main concerns is the deleting of the Ladies Club posts. To my knowledge the boardmanager has decided that he does not want to give them room on this messageboard. My/Our personal opinion is in this case of no value - it's his board and that should be respected.

[Harry]

Some very good points from all sides.  I had a post deleted and I sent the BM an email asking why, he explained - I accepted it was reasonable.  In general the board is a helpful and fun place (apart from some idiots), does get you fired up at times but that can also be good.  I've been a little surprised by some items that have been deleted and some that have not...but hey, opinions and views differ - thankfully.

Bottom line to me is that I can decide to use the board or not, I may not always agree with certain actions or views but that's normal life.  I also know that if I have a reasonable question I can email the BM and get a response.

I honestly don't know why the ladies group has been excluded from posting but the BM has made a decision and is sticking to it.  I do agree that the BM should not make statements on the subject as it's closed but as we all know, it's difficult to keep quiet at times.

[Fat SPG]

Basically its already been said above, but I agree with most of the points above -

- its the BMs board so he can do what he wants with it.  You have a choice to participate or not.
- BM should not reply, comment or retaliate to any responses.  This is the first board I have been involved with where the BM posts and participate.  If he wants to remain partial then he should be neutral and not post.  
- BM's posts, do forgive me BM, have been a bit emotional and tempermental at times, and although it may be justified (I would get defensive too), mostly it just reflects badly on the BM when he stoop down to their level
- elitist?  As long as their is a fair share of all perspectives should not be.  Non-elitist - does that mean nasty, racist, sexist, personal attacks run amok all over the board? I'll take elitist any day - but that's a fine line between the two.

I agree with Junebug.  I wouldn't want BM's job, but if I did have it, I would stay out of the line fire and not get involved.  This is the common protocol for most discussion groups.  

Perhaps BM you should shut down this board for a couple of months so that others see the value in it.  Maybe its one of those things that is appreciate more if its taken away.  A bit of a patronising attitude, but it would appear that you are dealing with some childish behaviour here.

[Arry]

Argh, my fingers are getting itchy again.  

Just to share my experience - I found the board through a search engine when I was still in Indonesia in 2000. Since I would be on my own here in Singapore, I thought it would be good to test the water first. At that time, the posters were those who conservatively stuck to their own names, hence: Pomp is Pomp; PaulN is PaulN; PhilM is PhilM; rvonfeldt is rvonfeldt; Rob is Rob; Arry is Arry. I still remember my first event that I attended; it was a Trivia Night at PhilM's place. I felt a bit out of place since the attendees fit in the mold of "expats". (I don't need to explain it I think). But they made me feel welcomed nevertheless, being quite 'different' (a "younger" asian expat).

Over time, people went and some new ones came and started to post under colourful pseudonyms. Some didn't register at all. Playful banters that initially could be identified to certain persons; now came from those who nicks who didn't have a face. Banters developed into abuse and silly remarks sometimes. I guess it makes the BM's job's harder to censor these postings. Why he censors more these days? It's because he can't identify the posters and see the real intentions behind the postings. If for example a certain JohnDoe said, let's go to Doug's Bar. The BM wouldn't know whether JohnDoe is the owner of the bar or has a vested interest in the establishment. However, when richardr posted that we should meet in Doug's Bar, we all know that he wouldn't have any hidden agenda behind it. Elitist? I don't think so - it's more like, when people socialise together, we tend to know each other on a deeper level that we trust that they post to the good of everybody. I guess it's quite unfortunate as well, if somebody posts out of the kindness of his/her heart regarding good airfare deals, hair salons, pubs and clubs and the posting gets deleted. Maybe the information clashes with BM's sponsors, then, I guess the person can just email his/her friends about the deal and not feel too bad about his/her posting being deleted.

As mentioned before, I got my postings deleted as well, and I felt bad. It was my pride that got hurt, but after a while - heck, my life's not affected. So all in all, it's hard to keep a fine line between control and freedom; censorship and democracy; but from this bulletin board I have obtained a lot of friends and good memories. As compared to other expat sites, I would still say that this site is the site that I prefer. It doesn't have saucy postings on how to perform certain sexual activities or how to pick up local girls; it doesn't have open abuses. It's also small enough to make it a community.

As for the BM gets emotional and biased? Well, no man is an angel. He makes mistakes as well.

[LaLa]

Was unable to post this in the "Social" forum - where it didn't really belong anyway, so will post it here. However as Social Girl has no desire to become a registered user it may prevent her from being able to reply.

Social Gal, yes I do seem to have lost any doubt as to your motives. Your original post on this thread stated that you "were dissapointed to find your post deleted" and then posed a question- " - how does a girl meet other girls through your site? I hope the third time I will be lucky and get my answer. I'll appreciate that ". So, working on the assumption that you are innocently seeking the companion of other females, you have been offered the following:

*how about clicking on any one at all of the other threads on this page
*Come to the dinner club, the scrabble evenings, the movie outings, the weekly bowling outings, the weekly Wednesday and Friday night parties, the afternoon teas, the brunches
and other gestures of welcome.

You subsequently admit that your posting is not, now, any attempt at making friendships but rather to disect the criteria involved placing a post, and not having it deleted.
So have you e-mailed the Board Manager to find out?

I made reference to gang wars in an attempt to illustrate my perceptions that you are re-hashing this particular issue attempting to collect "supporters" for your cause. If this is not the case then why do you insist that " some rules need to be clarified in public and all members and visitors of the board should know what level of control is applied" when each of us is perfectly capable (or perhaps not?) of following and abiding by the Board Managers criteria or else contacting him in private to discuss/challenge the removal of posts, or if we are still not happy then we have the inalieable right to bugger off elsewhere .

Why do you feel it behoven to you to champion this cause on behalf of the repressed masses?

[This message has been edited by LaLa (edited 26-11-2001).]

[BoardManager]

To Swordfish & Geographer
Yes, your posts were deleted. Because you were NOT contributing to any of the board discussions. Instead you keep coming at us as Board Managers - largely because your messages were deleted.

Be real : do you expect us, who have written all the editorial and who are running the Board daily, to keep quiet when dealing with some elements who are agitating and irritating? Or to use a pen name to post something we want to say?

My points to you are the same ones as to these people who are unhelpful on the Board:
1. write to us if you really care about what you are saying - don't agitate in an open forum.

2. if you have nothing helpful to say, please go away and keep peace. (Try to put yourselves in our shoes : some people keep coming to your office or home EVERYDAY and is a total nuisance to you and your staff. What do YOU do? Let him do what he likes, whenever he likes? Yet it is okay for the same thing to be done to other people's business?)

3. sorry, there is no such thing as absolute freedom of speech, at least not here on our Board. We believe there is also no absolute right to speak anywhere in the world. We have our policies and we reserve every right to fully enforce that. Too bad if you cannot fully agree with that. In any case, we DO reserve the right to post freely on our own Board. Again, you don't have to fully agree with that.

Can you leave us alone now? Please?

[Faraway]

I totally agree with BM regarding to his censorship policy on this board.However I  would suggest that in every category one should register to be able to post here.This would eliminate some busy "anti-expat locals" who frequently pick on us to create some kind of chaos to win their complex of shortcomings.I think people who disguised behind a temporary false nickname to insult at others are either children with lack of education or miserable,untamed souls.