America free trade agreements

[Joseph27]

Gee why do I feel so uneasy with my country pushing so hard to go into the free trade agreement with the US.......

Just so bloody typical of US government - lets have a free trade agreement - great good idea - all industries open - okay done.

What ? no wait our congress members arent happy with sugar - you see they have been BRIBED by the sugar industry - yes they were PAID OFF a few million dollars to ensure that this doesnt affect their industry.  How about the Aussie farmers - hey F**K them they arent an issue - they arent securing the reelection of senators and congress members in the US.

US free trade means the US has free access to your economy to swamp you with US goods at subsidised pricing whilst simultaneously denying access to any tangible area of their economy due to the bribes of big business.  

I say the Australian Parliament should forget about a free trade agreement until Latham and Kerry (Edwards) are sitting in their respective offices.  And then it will be okay only if the US government has the balls to stand up against some piece of crap sugar grower in the US and lets them compete head to head with their colleagues in Aus.  The US always talks of competition - so lets have some

[PhilM]

Your Government lists a whole package of benefits to Australia:-
http://www.dfat.gov.au/trade/negotiations/us_fta/outcomes/01_overview.html

Remains to be seen just how many of them stand the test of time. You are right a strong lobby group who puts money in Politicians pockets can achieve most things in the US no matter what agreements are in place.

[Dr_Fuzz]

I know that this is misguided wishing but after Howard's support of that dumb ass war in Iraq I thought the yanks would be a little generous (aka free trade actually equal free). I was really steaming when I read the sydney morning herald on-line about the deal signed.

[Joseph27]

Some sectors of the US are just too strong and by strong I mean they give so much PAC money that a politician can’t refuse through fear of a counterpart being elected in their place.  

Of course many American's don’t see this as a huge issue but to numerous countries it is – US goods made so competitively by both economies of scale (and government subsidies) swamp competitors in the name of free trade and then the US conveniently forgets, after a payout, about their obligations.  

Take the entertainment industry for an example.  The US produces entertainment on an absolutely massive scale and then dumps this product (be it sitcoms, days of lives, Baywatch or whatever) onto markets at a hugely subsidized price.  i.e.  A price that the local industry cannot compete with.  TV stations are left with little alternative but to fill their airways with the American product that then robs the local culture of so much.  Suddenly teenagers grow up on a diet of Friends into a homogenized world of Americanized branding.

Gun boat diplomacy is considered a thing of the past – the US have their tactics developed on a much greater level.  You open yourself to US trade and suddenly your industries are swamped – and the few products that can compete on their own right are excluded.  This is US free trade – its done at the end of a pen with bright people in suits – there are no gun boats but the effect is the same.

[Slim Pickins]

Im all for free trade, but this agreement aint free trade except in that its now free for the Yanks to trade with us , and they are still free of our trade (esp sugar and the few other things we have that might actually sell well over there).

[expat1]

J27,  

FYI, Edwards is not a free-trade kind of guy.  He would scrap a lot of it, so be careful what you wish for.

[CK]

We (Australia) were not forced to sign it. Obviously on the balance it is good for Australia otherwise logic would suggest we would have not signed. Lobbying is just part and parcel of a democracy and capitalism. I think we are lucky to have both.

[Joseph27]

We are lucky to have a political action committee spend $1 million dollars to secure the reelection of a member of government in return for that members support of a bill that runs counter to the publics general welfare???   I dont understand this concept - the examples are easy to find - a power bill that gets changed to exempt GE from half a billion dollars in extra expenses for the sake of GE spending $5million on securing the votes of Congress members.  Thats a great investment but not too good for John Q public who gets shafted by both the politician and the Corporation.  

Sorry I dont consider that lucky to have such a system.  

[Morrolan]

don't forget how Joe Public in the US is shafted by the higher price of the local subsidised product versus the lower worldprice he could have paid. the price of sugar in the USA is three times the world price.

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"These are my principles, if you don't like them I have others" Groucho Marx

[This message has been edited by Morrolan (edited 10-02-2004).]

[CK]

Well Joesph take the alternatives. Move to China or Iran or somewhere that uses a different system and see how you like it.  I like democracy and capitalism including the inefficiences you point out. The alternative is much worse. Lobby groups are just a part of this system. Why didnt the Australian Sugar industry lobby harder? have you read the link above with the upside of this free trade agreement? Looks to me like Australia is better off tomorrow on this than they were today.

[CK]

From the SMH "Mr Howard said canegrowers were the victims of a corrupt world trading system and he wanted to help them but was not prepared to deny benefits to the rest of the economy by turning his back on a trade deal.

But he promised the government would offer assistance to the sugar industry."

Now what is so wrong with that. Look at all the benifits from this free trade agreement. You suggest we dont sign it despite the positives for beef dairy cars etc ?

[Joseph27]

Well Joesph take the alternatives. Move to China or Iran or somewhere that uses a different system and see how you like it. I like democracy and capitalism including the inefficiences you point out. The alternative is much worse. Lobby groups are just a part of this system. Why didnt the Australian Sugar industry lobby harder? have you read the link above with the upside of this free trade agreement? Looks to me like Australia is better off tomorrow on this than they were today.

CK I wouldnt suggest for a second that China or Iran offers a better solution - but I would suggest that a more accountable form of government is something that we in the West should aim for.  There is no use continually saying that we still do it better than the worst...  We can however close the doors to the obvious fraud that occurs within the government.  Call for accountability - surely we have the right to do that so we can continue to use ourselves as an example of what society can achieve

[T2K]

Yes, all that is true, but Australia still dominates the world Blundstone (sp?) market!  When will this injustice end?!

[Joseph27]

No argument there T2K  

[Bruno]

Canada has had a free trade agreement with the US for ten years. In that time our GDP almost doubled in size. And support for the agreement among the public has grown from 46% before the pact to 70% now.

And with the Canadian economy slowing this year, as the US economy surges, you can bet Canadian companies are pretty happy to have unfettered access to the increasingly wealthy US consumer.