AA pilot arrested in Sao Paolo

[lou cifer]

I say GOOD ON YOU BRASIL!! Who do these yankees think they are?

Brazil detains U.S. airline crew after pilot makes obscene gesture
Wednesday, January 14, 2004 Posted: 9:22 PM EST (0222 GMT)

SAO PAULO, Brazil (Reuters) -- An American Airlines pilot was arrested at Sao Paulo International Airport Wednesday after making an obscene gesture while being photographed by Brazilian immigration officers, police said.

The pilot, identified as Dale Robin Hirsch, raised his middle finger at police to protest new Brazilian security measures that require U.S. citizens to be fingerprinted and photographed upon entering the South American country.

Brazil implemented the policy on January 1 in retaliation for a similar U.S. program that requires those foreign visitors who need visas to have their fingerprints and pictures taken on arrival in the United States.

"He made an internationally known obscene gesture when he was being photographed by the Federal Police," Federal Police agent Wagner Castilho told Reuters news agency. He said the other crew members were denied entry after refusing to cooperate with security officials.

The incident came just one day after Brazilian President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva personally appealed to President Bush to suspend visa requirements for each other's nationals and thus fingerprint checks.

Lula's request was expected to fall on deaf ears in Washington, D.C. Brazilians are among the top groups of illegal immigrants detained in the United States.

Castilho said the pilot will be charged with disobeying authority. A judge will decide whether Hirsch, 52, will be deported or tried in Brazil, Castilho added.

The remaining 11 members of the Miami, Florida-based crew were expected to be returned to the United States.

A spokesman in Sao Paulo for American Airlines said the carrier "respects the laws of the countries in which it operates," but declined further comment.

U.S. citizens have been subject to long lines at Brazilian airports since the new security measures were implemented, prompting U.S. Secretary of State Colin Powell to complain that Americans were being discriminated against.

Eager to speed up the process, Brazil on Wednesday rushed to gather digital fingerprint readers from police stations across the country. Officials said they will be ready by Thursday to register U.S. visitors in "30 seconds" rather than the hours it takes with an ink pad.

With Rio de Janeiro's famous Carnival coming in February, the city is worried about the impact on tourism. It has taken to handing out roses and "Rio Loves You" T-shirts to U.S. visitors and Wednesday laid on hip-wriggling Samba dancers at its airport arrival gate.

[lp_backpacker]

based on what i read here, he didnt resist being photographed did he?  the middle finger just shows his displeasure.  if that is so, then he couldnt be arrested on disbobeying authorities?  perhaps there is no obscene gesture laws?

[PhilM]

lp-backpacker So if one of the members of your staff does not like an instruction you give them, does it, but gives you the big finger in front of other employees are you going to smile and give them a raise??

[Mo3]

Perhaps it is explained by the state residence of the pilot--Florida.  In the States, we refer to them not as Floridians, but as Flor-idiots.  

[This message has been edited by Mo3 (edited 17-01-2004).]

[lp_backpacker]

well, i wouldnt sacked or penalised my staff over one incident as long as he or she got the job done on time.  i think the pilot is made a scapegoat over this tit-for-tat issue.  from what i read, visitors to usa are only subjected to a few more minutes od delay due to the extra finger-printing security measures while american visitors are subjected to hours of waiting due to manual checks of finger prints to known criminals.   the pilot could be dead tired and agitated with this inefficient procedure.  

[Publius]

Brazil is wrong. If the siluation were reversed and San Paolo or Rio had been devastated by international terrorism on the scale of September 11th, nobody would question the country's right to control its own borders. Alas, when it comes to the US a double-standard (as usual) exists. Apparently, some still believe that entrance to the US is a right.  

In Rio an appeals judge reversed the decision of this judge and President "Lulu" ordered the Rio police to continue fingerprinting American citizens and ignore the ruling. So much for Brazilian respect for law.

If foreigners object to US security laws they do not have to visit. The same goes for Americans visiting Brazil or anybody else who wants to travel to a foreign land. Access is not a right but a privilege and the laws of other countries ought to be respected. Unfortunately, the government of Brazil wants to play politics with a serious issue -anything to raise Lulu's poll ratings.

Brazilians have nothing to fear from tourists using the US as an access point -and they have said as much.Unfortunately, the same is not the true for the US which remains vulnerable to terrorists who might use the poorly screened airports of San Paolo or Rio to gain free passage.

[Albany]

It seems u are "finger pointing" in the wrong direction just like those US pilots.

Do u mean that the US has the privilege to enter Iraq and some other central American countries with their weapons and without the sanctions of the UN?

Re:
"Brazilians have nothing to fear from tourists using the US as an access point -and they have said as much.Unfortunately, the same is not the true for the US which remains vulnerable to terrorists who might use the poorly screened airports of San Paolo or Rio to gain free passage. "
>>>>>  I am not even going to discuss this as it is obvious u don't grab what this issue is all about.

With a Latin nick of Publius, are u repeating the same errors that led to the demise of the Roman empire whereby the Romans believed that they are "free"  to enter AND destroy whatever country that was in their way.

[This message has been edited by Albany (edited 18-01-2004).]

[Dr Opinion]

America -- or rather, the Bush Administration -- is wrong.

The bottom line is that this measure would *not* have prevented 9/11, since:

(1) None of the terrorists had *records*.

(2) People who don't want to get fingerprinted will just come in over the Canadian or Mexican borders, thousands of miles of unmonitored wild terrain. Yes, it's hard if you are an unprepared Mexican peasant, but for anyone with access to a modern hiking shop it's simply *no* *problem*.

Duh.  

If this is not intended to catch terrorists, what is it for? Screwing with the millions of Mexicans who drive America's economy yet are denied citizenship in a parody of "equality"? Catching tourists with parking violations before they leave the country?

It's about illegal searches and databases of normal people like you and I. This type of forced fingerprinting of *everyone* is a flagrant violation of the 4th Amendment regarding privacy:

"The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

The Bush Administration are systematically destroying the Constitution that has previously guaranteed US success. Americans: welcome to the downward spiral.  

[chubby_expat]

not sure if non-americans/foreign visitors can claim protection under the 4th or any amendment from the us constitution.

[Publius]

Doc,

Just because you cannot plug up every single hole in a leaking dam it is no reason not to try to plug up the few holes that you can plug.

I know this is a weird metaphor. Just envision a dam.

Also, more than one of the September 11th terrorists DID have records -unfortunately this information was not shared between the relevant US gov't departments at the time.

Foreigners who wish to travel to the USA are not US citizens or residents and are not protected by the US constitution. DUH!

The US borders with Mexico and Canada are far better patrolled than you describe. Most illegal aliens to the US arrive by air -but this is being restricted drastically.

Tourists to the USA may complain but in the end they will be grateful to be flying on airplanes with well-screened passenger lists and flight marshals. Afterall, everybody complains about the guard dog until an intruder breaks into the house. Very quickly the pooch is a hero to all.  

George W. Bush may appear a bad neighbor today but he will be remembered as a terrific ancestor.

 

   

[This message has been edited by Publius (edited 19-01-2004).]

[Publius]

http://www.theonion.com/4002/wdyt.html

[Dr Opinion]

> "...Just because you cannot plug up every single hole in a leaking dam..."

This Orwellian nightmare does not prevent terrorism. It is being sold as a preventative measure for terrorism, yet in fact it serves as nothing more than a nightmarish mechanism for spying on the presumed-innocent without a warrant.

"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary
Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

"Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the boisterous sea of liberty." --Thomas
Jefferson

[Patch998]

The father of fascism, Benito Mussolini:

"Modern fascism," he said, "should be properly called corporatism, since it is the merger of state, military and corporate power."

[Publius]

Three great quotes. Too bad they have nothing to do with GWB or the present Administration.

America's nightmare was envisioned by Osama Bin Laden, not George Orwell. This nightmare is two more hijacked planes crashing into US buildings or the Brooklyn Bridge (or something far worse).

[Dr Opinion]

> "...America's nightmare was envisioned by Osama Bin Laden..."

Yes, it would have been nice to see an investigation (or the slightest bit of proof) that OBL was indeed the mastermind. Even half the effort put into his capture that has gone into the Gulf War II would have been welcome. But no. Bush has a different agenda: one that was planned even before he'd defrauded the nation with that so-called election: to get the oil.

"We've captured Saddam! (But this has absolutely no bearing on the ongoing security of the US from 9/11-style attacks)"

"We're fingerprinting innocent citizens and visitors! (But this has absolutely no bearing on the ongoing security of the US from 9/11-style attacks)"

"We're cross referencing a bunch of bank, travel, and shopping databases that you were promised were *private*, so we can monitor everything the "bad" people do, even before they do bad things! (But this has absolutely no bearing on the ongoing security of the US from 9/11-style attacks)"

I see a lot of activity -- supposedly to provide security from another 9/11-style attacke -- that has *absolutely* *no* *bearing* on he ability of Al Quaeda to perform another attack, but serves only to create a police state...

Bush is watching you.