AA pilot arrested in Sao Paolo

[Racer]

Dubya has made the world a worse place to live in....

Osama and his pals gave GWB the perfect excuse to put his world domination plan into play...

I ain't buyin..... He may be able to fool the rednecks at home, but not the rest of us....

To Brasil, I say, you should have put the entire air crew through the kind of treatment people are going thru in the US.....  Rough em up, strip search them, deny them access to anyone, deny them sleep and food, and to top it all off, deport them to Syria !!! HAHAHAHA  

Dubya - I count down the days to you being OUT OF OFFICE.......  Then hopefully we see a US Prez with a brain......

[Patch998]

 "Modern fascism should be properly called CORPORATISM,since it is the merger of state, military and corporate power"
Mussolini I think, has authority on this one
so, er, sorry publickus, it has every thing to do with bush. As for the nightmare invisioned by Ossama, thats the total destruction of the US,not the paranoid orwelian beast bush and his henchmen have turned it into.One could argue that Ossama is starting to succed, because very few people outside america recognise it anymore. Bush has managed to take the widespread sympathy felt after 9/11 and lose it.That alone should be enough to make you question the man and his motives.
Anyway we've been through this lots of times and I'm actually starting to think that you and imagine are  spotty, underpaid whitehouse interns getting your brownie points all notched up by blindly defending bush wherever you can.( cant think of any other reason youd be so blind to this mans lies.)
Enjoy cos when america finally wakes up to what this administration has been doing in its name, you're gone and all the world will turn and say "good riddance". Cant wait.

[Mr McJoy]

As a soveriegn nation, America has every right to adopt security measures they think are appropriate - BUT then so does Brazil have the right to adopt measures they find appropriate to protect their country. They also have every right to perceive Americans or for that matter any nationalities as potential security threats.

The AA pilot insulted the government officials implementing a sovereign nation's policy and fully deserves to be punished.

[guzzler]

My understanding of the new immigration procedures is that an electronic fingerprint is taken and a photo is taken while in line.  This is trampling th human rights of visitors to the U.S.?  

In most US states, residents who choose to drive a car legally go through the same procedure.  Electronic fingerprint and your picture on file.   If this type of data is required for a drivers license for US citizens, it certainly can't be so bad to ask those who voluntarily choose to visit the US to do the same.  It's not like it's a long procedure and they walk away with inky fingers.

Another point.  If Brazil and other countries want to play this game, let them.  Who do you think is more dependant on tourism dollars?  I think a few more Americans (and their dollars with them) will cancel vacation plans to Brazil than the other way around.  Brazil will do an about-face on this soon.

[Dr Opinion]

> "...an electronic fingerprint is taken and a photo is taken while in line. This is trampling th human rights of visitors to the U.S.?..."

Yes, it obviously violates the 4th Amendement. The Government simply has no right to violate the privacy of private individuals in this way.

> "...In most US states, residents who choose to drive a car legally go through the same procedure..."

Not where I'm from, and I've never heard of fingerprints being required for a drivers license... that again would be a serious violation of the 4th Amendment.

That said, the entire US driver's license system is essentially an unconstitutional identity card: it would have been impossible to pass *compulsory* ID card legislation due to safeguards in the Constitution... however the big government freaks managed to sneak it through as a drivers license, since most people drive in the states.

Now you get the absurd situation where banks, for example, require you so show your fricking *drivers* *license* to open an account....

This sounds insane to people from countries with more freedom, but it's true...  

[guzzler]

"Now you get the absurd situation where banks, for example, require you so show your fricking *drivers* *license* to open an account...."

"This sounds insane to people from countries with more freedom, but it's true"

Where in the world can you walk into a bank and open an account without showing identification?

When is the last time that you renewed your DL in the states (that is if you're from the US)?  It's very common in many states to get a thumb or index finger print.

[This message has been edited by guzzler (edited 23-01-2004).]

[guzzler]

Doc,

Another question....

To what countries are you referring where the people have more freedom than in the US?

[Manc Man]

Guzzler

People open bank accounts in the UK all the time without photo ID.

I've had a drivers license in 5 different states in the US, never been finger printed.

You should check your facts before spouting off.

mm

[Publius]

No, you ought to check YOUR facts. The US 4th Amendment does not apply to foreigners residing outside of the United States.

In Britain you cannot open a bank account without identification. And you must show at least two proofs of address.

It is amazing some of the garbage that is spewed out on this board as "fact."

[Publius]

http://www.personal.barclays.co.uk/BRC1/jsp/brccontrol?task=popup1group&value=4831&target=_blank&site=pfs

[Manc Man]

You can't read can you?

I  say "photo ID", not proof of address.

Different thing.

And the 4th Amendment doesn't apply to US citizens applying for a Drivers License? Why's that then?

mm

[This message has been edited by Manc Man (edited 24-01-2004).]

[guzzler]

I'm not even sure the 4th amendment is applicable.  If it's unconstitutional for a government agency to take fingerprints then every criminal in the land would be free on appeal.  This is a pretty liberal view of the 4th amendment.  I'll have to go back through the threads and read what some of you have said about this and see if there is any backup for it being applicable.

Manc - how long has it been since you had a drivers license in the states?  As I stated, it's a relatively new requirement that more and more states are going to.

Quite honestly, it's a good thing to have at immigration.  I'm sure it's quite easy for international criminals and terrorists to get fake passports and alter their appearance...much more difficult to fake a fingerprint (if somehow their print is on file).  Why would law abiding people be worried about giving up their print?  How does this invade their privacy?  They aren't exactly installing a GPS chip into the back of their neck.  I think people need to relax on this issue.

[guzzler]

 http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dl/dl_info.htm#RENEW

[guzzler]

Seems that my comments have been backed up by facts.

Who was just spouting off?  Don't be an @ss unless you have your facts straight.

[Manc Man]

I post

<<I've had a drivers license in 5 different states in the US, never been finger printed>>

What's not factual about that?