1911 - 2004

[Reason]

Ronald Reagan in the wake of the 1986 explosion of the space shuttle Challenger:

"The future doesn't belong to the fainthearted; it belongs to the brave."

Once again let me state that I fully support the struggle against those who seek to tear down the liberal democracies of the world by intentionally inflicting mass casualties on their civilians and by tearing down the world’s economic infrastructure.

[nikki m]

Although he has been gone a very long time the finality of his passing is heartbreaking.  A great man has died.  

[Flippy]

True indeed, nikki. I am deeply saddened at the news of Reagan's passing.

[Jean Jeudi]

What exactly did Reagan do that made him a great man ? A great orator, certainly, but what makes him such a great man ? Rising poverty ? Reduction of taxes on the super-rich ? Almost ran the government into an Italian style debt-GDP ratio ? Scaremongering ? Having a alzheimers and running the government through the eyes of a swami ?

The man was a joke. He was one of the worst presidents in history (not as bad as Bush though) and accomplished relatively nothing while in power for 8 years. Sure, the cold war was ended but that was simply inevitable given the USSR was running out of cash and people's mindsets were already starting to change.

So, a list of this great man's accomplishments would be helpful to understand your point of view ?

[Flippy]

JJ - Please, have some respect. A man is dead and his family is greiving. Maybe you have never lost a close relative or anyone you cared deeply about or maybe you are just a cold-hearted person. Neither is any excuse for such disrespect for another human being and his family members.

[Jean Jeudi]

Excuse me but is Ronnie's family reading this message board ?

[T2K]

"Sure, the cold war was ended but that was simply inevitable given the USSR was running out of cash and people's mindsets were already starting to change."

Why did the USSR run out of cash?  Did it possibly have anything to do with their impossible attempts to compete with the US military buildup of the 80's?  Which Reagan initiated, at great fiscal cost, no doubt.

The demise of Nazi Germany was "simply inevitable" too, sooner or later.  Churchill and Roosevelt were such useless leaders to waste all that money and all those lives on hastening it.

Reagan was a great President in my opinion, and many other Americans.

[Flippy]

JJ - It doesn't matter whether Ronald Reagan's family reads this message board or not. I said it was a matter of respect given the fact the man died today. Nevertheless, my question has been answered, you are obviously just a cold-hearted person. Sorry for you and those who have the misfortune to know you.

PS - You are most certainly free to have whatever opinions you have about anyone and you do have the right to express them, however ill-timed and, in this case, disrespectful they happen to be. Interestingly, or perhaps ironically, this very type of freedom was very high on President Reagan's list of values.

[This message has been edited by Flippy (edited 06-06-2004).]

[Reason]

Jean Jeudi,

To the dismay of much of Europe and America's left, Ronald Reagan walked away from arms reduction talks in Reykjavik, began spending money on ABM technology and deployed pershing missiles in Europe. He was blasted as a warmonger, but his brilliance could not be seen by the peaceniks. He purposefully drove the Soviet Union out of business. They desperately needed for the U.S. to scale back it's military spending, but he knew better.

As for the deficits, the cold war was an expensive one to wage. Don't worry about re-payment. It's on us. Also remember that Congress is responsible for spending, not the President. Not long after Republicans gained control of Congress did the U.S. start running a surplus.

Read some of John F. Kennedy's speeches on tax-cuts. They may help you understand how reducing the top marginal rate form 78% to 28% caused the massive economic expansion of 1983 to 2000.

In 1978, under Carter, there were impossibly long lines at gas stations. The U.S. was in what Carter called an "energy shortage." Reagan turned it all around in no time flat by de-regulating the energy industry. Suddenly, no shortage.

Its pure socialist hogwash that poverty increased under Reagan. The standard of living in the West is always increasing. If I have time I will dig up a particular paper that claims that the gap between the rich and the poor decreased in the 1980s.

Remember, 90% of the U.S. press corps is Democratic. Reagan was a Republican. You haven't heard all of the good stuff, and some of the bad stuff that you have heard isn't necessarily true.

[This message has been edited by Reason (edited 06-06-2004).]

[tiare maori]

Flippy, sorry, but Reason posted his post on this message board where you, of all people, know there are people posting that have very different views of the world than yours (and nikki m's and Reason's).  You cannot put a post praising the man without expecting criticism as well (even though he has just died).  He was, after all, a man who chose a life of public office, where quite frankly, you remain fair game.  If you, nikki m and Reason wish to post flowing tributes, I suggest you create your own site/board which is limited to right wing, flag waving members (I refer to that in a symbolic manner as I know your flag is in storage).  You're an American and supposed to treasure freedom of speech.  This is a message board where people are supposed to comment on previous posts (and not just agree with them).   I have to admit, I had a chuckle over the first three posts.  After Reason's and nikki m's this morning I was going to send one and ask where you were... and you didn't disappoint.  Keep them coming...your tag team approach is very amusing.

[Flippy]

tm - You are missing the point again. JJ and everyone else (as I have already said) have every right to their opinions and every right to say them loudly and clearly in whatever format they like. I just find it crass and unfeeling to speak with such disrespect of a person (whomever it is) who has just died, that's all.

[maDstoP]

The man (along with a few other ppl) ended what could have become the worst conflict in history without invading other sovereign nations and without having to slug it out with the former USSR. He talked the talk but fortunately never had to walk the walk. Perhaps some of us wouldnt be here now if things had turned out differently. I dont know what he did or didnt do internally in america but from what I saw from the outside I have nothing but respect for Ronald Reagan. He had a difficult job to do but did it without the bravado and chest beating that we see in todays world.

The current and future presidents could take some pointers from this man.

He had a good innings and although its always sad to see someone go, perhaps its better that he isnt suffering anymore. May he rest in peace.

Do you think our world is the one he envisioned after the dust had settled and he saw that the cold war was finally over? Do you think if he hadnt have had alzheimers he would recognise the global climate as one that could possibly have followed 20 years later?

[tiare maori]

Reason, you disappoint me with your last paragraph.  You previously posted on another thread that anti-Bush arguments were based on conspiratorial premises (and therefore, although logical, not valid).  Now it seems that anybody who does not agree with you on the value of Reagan's presidency does so out of ignorance because they don't know the real story (as a result of a stacked press).  Hmn.  That sounds pretty conspiratorial to me.  I think conservative forces in the press and in business in the US these days are just as dangerous as the "left-wing press".   Look at the problems Mike Moore had in distributing his new anti-Bush film.  I have confidence that people can make proper judgments of any presidency from the extensive sources of information available.  Best leave the conspiracy theories to "us socialists".

[tiare maori]

No Flippy.  You are missing the point again.  If Reason thought so well of Reagan and wished to avoid any criticism at this time, he should have posted his tribute elsewhere.  This is a talking point message board which is supposed to canvas differing opinions on posted topics.  You cannot use Reagan's recent death as an excuse to be able to write only one side of the argument without question or comment.  So really, the unfeeling one was Reason.  Also, you can't have it both ways.  To label someone cold-hearted, crass and unfeeling simply because they commented about a man who chose a public office (and in response to a posting praising his presidency on a message board that calls for some argument and commentary) is totally uncalled for.  You got concerned when someone referred to something nikki m said as ignorant and made a comment about how childish it is to resort to name calling.  Well, this is exactly what you have done today.  JJ should not be labelled any of those things because he responded in a manner which is totally appropriate for the context.  It would have been inappropriate if JJ had have made those comments at a memorial - but that was not at all where Reason posted his original tribute.  Your hypocracy is quite incredible, Flippy.  Let me assure you, I rarely miss the point and your condescension in this respect is objected to.

[Flippy]

>> "Let me assure you, I rarely miss the point and your condescension in this respect is objected to. "

What's ironic about that statement?