PR & National Service

[Slim Pickins]

Does anyone know what the real story is with regards to National Service obligations for males applying for PR without an employment pass?
If I apply for PR when I have an employment pass, I do not have to do NS. The problem is I do not have an EP. I cant get an EP because I can't get a job offer. I can't get a job offer because I am not a PR...
I am eligible to apply for PR without an EP as I am married to a Singaporean (and I have a dgeree and IT skills etc...), however I am not clear on what my NS obligations would be under such circumstances.
(I do know that if I have to spend 2 years stuffing around training in the jungle with kids ten years younger than me, I will have no hope of a decent career at the end of it as all my IT skills will be obsolete by then. We shall ignore for now the fact that I don't particularly *want* to spend 2 years being screamed at by some drill sargeant either!...)
I tried asking SiR about this and they "didnt know"! They put me through to the manpower planning board or whatever its called that manages NS registration. After being transferred between about 5 departments on the phone, I got hold of someone who told me that when I am given PR (and he personally thought it unlikely I would be if I didnt have a job) SiR would set a date for me to go and register for NS, and at that time they would decide if I have to do it or not!
Before I came over to Singapore, I was told in regards to this both yes, no, and maybe , apon my enquiries. (the rules seem to depend on who answers your question, and whether or not they a: are about to go to lunch/home , b: have a queue of people to deal with , or c: are in a different department to the appropriate one to answer the question - and c: ppl seem to give the best info).
So Im currently looking at 1 vote for NO (dont have to do NS), 1 vote for YES and 2 votes for MAYBE.
If anyone has some experience with this do let me know...

[Hang in there]

How old are you slim? I suspect you won't have to. In all my years that I've been here (bordering on 30) I've never heard of an expat who becomes PR having to do NS.

[evehow]

First generation PR no need to do NS.  2nd generation will be given a choice - to become citizen (i.e. serve NS) or to remain PR.

[cs]

To add, SIR looks at your parents. If you were formerly singaporeans or Singaporean PR, you are eligible for NS. This is to close the loophole of PR's who keep their kids in Singapore on student pass and then send them out of Singapore to study when they reach 18 so that they can escape their NS liability. The general rule is that if you want to come back to Singapore to work after that, you will have to serve NS.

FYI, the reservist laibility for Singaporean males is up to between 40 - 50 so you don't have to worry too much abt the being the oldest person there. Also there are regular medical check up's to ensure that you are medically fit to undergo the training.

Finally if you are a 2nd generation PR, you should seriously consider giving something back to Singapore and finish your NS liability.    

[Slim Pickins]

Im in my late 20's now.
From what I have read on the government website, the exemption for first generation PRs is only if the PR is granted via the Professionals/Technical Personnel and Skilled Workers Scheme (the pre-requisite for which is a valid employment pass).
To quote the SiR website "Main applicants who are granted PR status under the first generation Peofessional, Technical Personnel and Skilled Workers (PTS) Scheme ot the Economic Benefits Scheme (EBS) are exempted from NS."
As someone applying on the grounds of marraige to a Singaporean, I would not be under the PTS scheme surely? (The notes for the PTS scheme state that "An application can be submitted if the applicant is working in Singapore on an Employment Pass (P or Q Pass)."
It doesnt seem to make it very clear huh?

[cs]

Suggest you do the acid test.

Do you or do you not have parents, grand parents who were Singapore citizens / PR's?

If yes, then you have to do NS.

If no, then you don't have to do NS.