Lots of Jobs available?

[manager]

EP aside I try to hire the best person for the job that I can within the budget that I have available.

A lot of expats who arrive in SG looking for jobs think they're the best thing since sliced bread and are looking for salaries that bear no relation to their experience or what a local is willing to work for. If an expat is looking for a package or salary that is 2X, 3X or sometimes more than what a local is looking for to do the same job they must generate at least that multiple in terms of improved revenue, cost savings etc and in most cases that simply is not possible. If you are looking for a job here - and there are plenty of vacancies around - then my advice is be realistic with your salary expectations. If you are going to ask for a lot more than a local would ask for then demonstrate and be willing to show why you are worth the premium.

Personally I think that in general the Chinese are easily the most racist and bigoted nation in the world but that another matter entirely and one you have to accept living in Asia but it doesn't influence my hiring practices or affect the mean that I don't have a lot of very good Chinese friends.

[sundaymorningstaple]

Please correct me if I'm wrong but what are we talking about here.  There seems to be some confusion of terms.

First, lets take "Recruitment Agencies"

In Singapore, if I'm not mistaken, it's against the Employment Agency Act (Licensing) to charge prospective candidates fees to find them a job.  

This leads to the Agencies working for the Client Company who pays them to recruit certain employees. In short, they find people for jobs, not jobs for people.  In order to do so and remain competitive I'm sure they do advertise bogus jobs in order to keep their databases up to date with fresh produce (the average local stays with any one company no more than 2 years). For your information, a check on MOM's website lists well over 1000 Licensed Agencies in Singapore. With this in mind, and the fact that some HR Departments send out Mass email requirements to dozens of agencies at a time (can't always get an exclusive - an most work on salvage rates "no cure - no fees") so speed is of utmost importance.

Now, look at Executive Search Services (Headhunters).  

This seems to be where the bad press (Eepatwise) is ladled out. From what I gather, Headhunters generally are not interested in unemployed people (this is obviously a generalization if you are a contract type worker). This is where the term poaching arises in that industry. A client wants a specific type of person who is generally found at the client's competitor. Ethics won't allow them to directly approach their competitors staffs. This is where the Headhunter comes in.

He/she is generally a facilitator.  If you send him/her your resume/CV and you are exceptional in your field, he'll keep you in his files. He may even market your CV to select clients in the hope of spurring them into action (good ones will).

"Headhunter"

confirming/clarifying my thoughts may be helpful.

Regarding the perceived racism here:

Racism is alive and well here.

Please don't get me wrong, when the advertisments say must be chinese speaking, it usually means the office generally is chinese speaking and would be more confortable with other chinese speaking employees. Or, their office may be in chinatown.

However, regardless of what the reasoning/logic given by the gov't, (i.e., communalism of the 60's). It's basically their way of forced integration. The HDB policy is a racist as it gets.  The racial makeup of each block of flats must equal the racial makeup of singapore(If you think I'm kidding, look at the HDB for sale in the straits times classifieds - you will see ads that say open to all races, indian only, chinese only - that is why).  Additionally, immigration (naturalization/citizenship) is also governed by the same statistical percentages.  This is to ensure that the powers that be remain the powers that be.  It is also funny because they have put so much emphasis on "education" but still do not give the citizens and credit. (I know...
let's not get into social moral/habits).

As one who was brought up in a racist family and who graduated school in the middle of the turbulent 60's in the US. I know what it's all about.

Manager

I also am in 100% agreement with your entire post.

[Equinox]

Another swag of Investment Bankers bite the dust this week in Singapore and in HK.  Blood on the streets so they say and more to come!

Where are the mindless headhunters....?

[Jobless]

Head Hunter....

I have been living in Singapore for over 4 years, and have had a great deal of success.  However, I now find myself out of work, and need help!

I would like too have contact wiht you directly, and would appreciate any advice you may have.

Please email me @ hedleyn@hotmail.com

Thank you!

[Vapourware]

No disrespect Jobless, but HH is unlikely to assist you finding a job, his goal in life is to find people for jobs; not jobs for people!

What's your field?  Maybe I can point you towards the sunsrise.

[to jobless]

what field are you in? a little information about what you are looking for will allow anybody who has a vacancy to contact you

[Dr Opinion]

Singapore racist? As a Brit expat, my experience is that some *people* are racist, and some *people* are not. Frankly, claiming "Singapore is a racist country" or "Singaporeans are racist" is racist *itself*!

I've worked in Europe, the States, and Asia, and "Singaporeans" are no more or less racist than any of the rest. Singapore as a country works hard to preserve racial harmony (obviously the worst case scenario for a multicultural state like SG is the "Beirut Scenario") and most Singaporeans are pretty reasonable people. There are bad apples, there are cliques, but most folks are just normal, regular people and are just as tolerant of you as you deserve.  

Like any county, their first goal in times of crisis is to keep their people employed, and rightly so. So unless you're bringing something very valuable to the economy (not simply the fact that you'd like a job) then you might be out of luck if you're not a Singaporean - and that can hardly be called racist.

[wherefore]

Hey, this is a job thread not a racist thread!  But having said that I would agree that most countries have it's die hard racists, I have experienced it personally and is unavoidable.  There are elements everywhere and some more pronounced than others.  

[sugarcane]

Dear Head Hunter & Vapourware,

I would like to contact both of you if u can help me reach to sunrise. I really need to be assisted in some way. After reading the entire thread. I still feel we can't really do anything. some believe,some people and this country is racist and some believe it is not. But finally what's use of discussing all this. This is no way solving our problem.
so let's forget all this and try to solve where do we stand and what can we do to solve our problems of jobs/EP/PR etc.in stay here. Finally we all are staying here so it's better to accept some negative aspect and try to ignore it rather than doing what we all are doing. That's what I feel.

Head hunter and Vapourware, or all those who can really assist me I m really tired and confused about my future in this country.

please e-mail me at unisa@rediff.com

thanks,

[Radja]

hi sugarcane and all;
I totally agree with you saying that we are wasting everyone's time by talking about racism and dscrimination,  we can't change people's mind if they are not willing to change.
Foreigners must always understant that it is not easy to be in a foreign coutry but think of the choice they have made ,most of the time harder for the unemployed one in the family.
for those who have never tried living in a foreign country for many reasons that life leads you to,I hope you try at least to understand the hardship these foreigners are having here (emotionnaly)and not seeing only the material side of it (finance).
I have my self lived in foreign coutries from very different cultures for many years because of my husband's job,and tried all what I could to get involved in any jobs but still wasn't successful not only for a descriminatory point of view but because it is always harder if you do not know someone already in the field of your choice.
I hope that we can all help each other the way we can respectively because no one never knows who you might need one day?
thanks to all.

[YourLocalRacist]

Dr Opinion
Member

Posts: 131
From:UK, US, SG
Registered: Sep 2000     posted 06-04-2002 11:12 PM             
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Singapore racist? As a Brit expat, my experience is that some *people* are racist, and some *people* are not. Frankly, claiming "Singapore is a racist country" or "Singaporeans are racist" is racist *itself*!

I've worked in Europe, the States, and Asia, and "Singaporeans" are no more or less racist than any of the rest. Singapore as a country works hard to preserve racial harmony (obviously the worst case scenario for a multicultural state like SG is the "Beirut Scenario") and most Singaporeans are pretty reasonable people. There are bad apples, there are cliques, but most folks are just normal, regular people and are just as tolerant of you as you deserve.

Like any county, their first goal in times of crisis is to keep their people employed, and rightly so. So unless you're bringing something very valuable to the economy (not simply the fact that you'd like a job) then you might be out of luck if you're not a Singaporean - and that can hardly be called racist.

Dr Opinion is too kind on us Chinese Singaporeans.  But some of these accusations have a degree of truth in them.  I feel ashamed and think that with time and education, more will repent and change.

But there are a few different attitudes here though.  The Indians and Malays suffer what most minority racial groups suffer in any other country.  It is not publicly discussed.  It is not politically correct.  Well educated Indians and Malays integrate into the workplace better.  I feel the same fear walking down the street at night with two Indian youths behind me as I would down a South London road with two non-white youths trailing me.  Total eradication of cultural differences will never happen anywhere.  But once friendship is struck, race is often forgotten.

Then there is this mixture of respect for and disapproval of the white man.  The westerner is acknowledged to have come  from economies and cultures that have more breadth and depth than the mere 30 years of Singaporean existence.  But our culture is still conservative Chinese and the white man's ways are still not totally understood nor accepted.   A local boss would be very insulted by a contradicting opinion from, say, an American staff who has been trained to speak his mind.  Agreeing to disagree is not as common here.  Things are taken very personally.  Challenging authority is not fashionable after decades of conditioning by our leaders.  It is in our genes now.

Working in another cultural environment in never easy.  None the easier in Singapore, supposedly the most westernised of Asian countries.  I still feel uncomfortable spending a few days in our American office enduring the 4 letter F words, the very loud confrontational meetings, the excessive drinking in the office and last but not least the Afro-American who kept asking me if I was related to the guy who runs the Chinese take-away down the block.

I better stop.  I have written more than 2 cents worth and I have already forgotten what the thread is about.  So to sort of be relevant in a very general kind of way, here is the ever popular job link :

Jobs.com.sg

[bluemousemonkey]

YourLocalRacist - completely irrelevant to your post which was very informatively written, how do you get to bolden your font?
I'm curious how you do that - could you say how?

[This message has been edited by bluemousemonkey (edited 26-05-2002).]

[Mr UK]

Radja,

I totally agree with your post perhaps you could say the same thing to my replies I got when asking for contacts in the Banking industry.

All,

As an observation from reading things on this board, there is no doubt there is racism.  However, as 'YourLocalRacist' says it's the mind set of the chinese to not accept losing face or going against authority and to NOT ACCEPT.  The majority of the Westerners have only really learnt what acceptance is about so I reckon it will take sometime and acceptance on part of the Westerners that it aint going to happen over night.

Unfortunately for those that don't accept then they don't allow themselves to move on and learn, which is a pity as it can be quite self destructive.

Best wishes.

Mr UK.

[papa-san]

Bold
Italic

RTFM

R.e.a.d. T.h.e. F.u.c.k.i.n.g. M.a.n.u.a.l.

[papa-san]

On the left side of the window where you type the message there is a link called 'UBB Code is On' (or maybe it is off). Click on this and you will see an explanation.

Basically it looks like html-tags but this one uses brackets '[' instead of '<'.

Papa-San from Singapore

[This message has been edited by papa-san (edited 30-05-2002).]

[This message has been edited by papa-san (edited 30-05-2002).]