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ExpatSingapore Message Board 26 May 2012, 22:38:15 pm *
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Author Topic: Request for pay slips  (Read 22836 times)
Are they serious??
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« on: 04 May 2003, 1:28:00 am »
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Hi all,

Just curious to see if anybody else has experienced this.  I have been offered a position with a well known MNC and I have already signed the contract and confirmed the start date.  Currently they are checking references - which is fine.  

My bug is they are now asking for a copy of my pay slip with the company I am leaving.  Is it just me or is this an invasion of my privacy, has anyone else experienced this and refused to comply.  I feel its just HR trying to cross the "T's" and dot the "I's"!

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ExpatSingapore Message Board
« on: 04 May 2003, 1:28:00 am »
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Grub
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« Reply #1 on: 04 May 2003, 4:06:00 am »
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This happened to my husband when we moved from the Middle East to S'pore - the new company here requested for a payslip. The company never gave him any but he had to submit the employment contract which showed how much he was earning. Me thinks it is a way the company checks up on you to see if you have "bumped up" your current salary in order to get a bigger one. It is a gross invasion of privacy, something only we encountered in Singapore.

Looking back, my husband thinks he should not have submitted anything. When he said that he was never given pay slips they were quite happy to let the matter drop but at that time, he was really enthusiastic about providing them with whatever documentation they required.

Maybe you can refuse outright based on privacy issues and see what they say.

[This message has been edited by Grub (edited 04-05-2003).]

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HR Manager
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« Reply #2 on: 04 May 2003, 8:55:00 am »
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I am an Aussie HR Manager and have been working in Singapore for several years.  It is quite common practice here for HR people to do reference checks on new employees and to ask them for a copy of their last payslip.   The reason why they ask for a payslip is not to invade someone's privacy but to check to see whether the person's current/last salary is really what they have said it is.  HR also want to ensure that the person whom they have just made an offer to is honest and worth hiring.

I have come across a number of candidates in Singapore who actually lie about their salary so that they can get a bigger offer from their new employer (both locals and foreigners).  Some of them never suspect that we are going to reference check them with their previous HR departments and ask them for a payslip.

If a person refuses to show me his/her payslip or makes up some stupid excuse about not having one, then I usually get suspicious and ask to talk to their immediate boss or to their HR department so that I can confirm his/her last salary.  I have also withdrawn a few offers in the past because people have lied out their last salaries.

It's all about honesty and integrity.  Would you want to hire someone who has lied about their salary?

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Are They Serrious??
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« Reply #3 on: 04 May 2003, 10:43:00 am »
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I have to disagree, everyone expects to have references and background checks done by a new employer, but I think "HR Manager" you don't know what your talking about when you say that you can pick up the phone and speak to the HR Manager or representative in an other company and get these details.  I have spoken to my current HR and they were quite shocked at the prospect and feel that if this is an example of how you run your HR they would let you go for gross misconduct.  
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mmmm..
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« Reply #4 on: 04 May 2003, 13:23:00 pm »
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Not so sure if this is that uncommon a practice..  Singapore office of a company (large reputable european name) I know used to send letters to last employers of its new hires for references, requesting for salary information as well.. what kind of reply they got, I don't know..
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HR Manager
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« Reply #5 on: 04 May 2003, 14:49:00 pm »
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Dear Are you Serious,

I think you may have misinterpreted my last message so I will explain the recruitment process at my company to you.  Your new organisation may do things differently.

Step 1 - Ask the candidate to complete an Employment Application form when he/she comes to the 1st interview.  On that form, he/she has to state his/her current & last salaries and also the last 5 jobs that he/she has held.  Furthermore, the form also asks the person to provide 3 referees whom HR can contact to do reference checks.  NOTE - The referees must be people whom the candidate has worked closely with and must be in a position to comment on the person's performance.  The referees must be more senior to the candidate i.e. they must either be his/her immediate boss, the department head, the Regional Head or another senior colleague.  Personal references from relatives, friends and doctors are not acceptable because they are usually not objective.  Also, Personal referees usually have never worked closely with the candidate and therefore cannot comment on his/her ability to perform a certain job.

Step 2 - Make sure that the candidate has signed the declaration on the back of the application form stating that all info that he/she has written on the form is correct.

Step 3 - HR interviews the candidate.  If the candidate is good, HR will then recommend him/her to the hiring manager/s for a second round of interview.

Step 4 - If the hiring manager/s feel that the candidate is the right person for the job, they might arrange for him/her to meet the department head or Regional Head.

Step 5 - If all of the managers think that they have found the right person for the job, they will ask HR to make an offer to the candidate and do reference checks.

Step 6 - HR will call the candidate and make an offer to that person.  HR will also tell the candidate that the offer is subject to reference & salary checks.  HR will then ask the candidate to come in and sign the offer letter.  At the same time, HR will request that the candidate bring in an original copy of a payslip along with original copies of his university degrees and transcripts.

Step 7 - The candidate comes into HR and is given 2 copies of the offer letter.  He/she then reads through the offer letter.  The HR  person will then ask the candidate if he/she has any questions about the offer letter and needs things to be clarified.  Once the candidate is happy with the offer letter, he/she will be asked to sign both copies.  One copy is for him/her to keep and the other one is for HR to put onto their Personnel files.  At this time, the HR Manager will also request that the candidate submit a copy of his/her current payslip so that it can be photocopied & checked.  HR will also ask for a copy of the person's passport & FIN card if the person is a foreigner or a copy of the NRIC card if the person is a local.  If the candidate doesn't want to hand over a payslip or doesn't have a payslip, then HR will ask if it's OK to call the candidate's HR department to check salary info.  NOTE - We never call the HR department of another company to check an employee's salary without getting the candidate's permission first.  

A lot of candidates are very surprised that our company will reference check them.  When they first filled out an application form, they really never suspected that we would go ahead and reference check them at the offer stage, so they just write whatever they want on the form.  Actually, a number of candidates get very nervous when we ask them if it's OK to call their referees to do reference checks.

Once the employee has provided us with 3 referees, we then ask him/her  if it's OK for us to call the referees directly.  NOTE - We don't do verbal reference checks without the candidate's consent.

By the way, when we conduct verbal reference checks with previous or current bosses of the candidate, we usually ask them to confirm dates of employment, the candidate's position in the company, his/her duties & responsibilities, level of performance, ability to get along with peers/subordinate & managers as well as salary info.  This is pretty standard.

I am not too sure which MNC you are about to join but I have worked in the banking & finance industry for over 20 years and I can tell you that a lot of the financial institutions in Singapore conduct reference checks in a similar way to our organisation.

Back home in Australia though, we never used to ask a candidate to produce a payslip.  In additon, we would always conduct 2 verbal reference checks with previous employers before making an offer to a candidate.  In Singapore, everything is  done the other way around i.e. the offer is made first and then the reference checks are done later.  Also, back in Oz, reference checks were only done after we had received the candidate's permission to do so.

I don't think our way of doing things is gross misconduct as you have described.

Speaking about gross misconduct - Another thing you have to realise is that quite often, headhunters conduct reference checks on senior candidates by picking up the phone and calling their current & previous bosses, without them knowing about it.  They also speak to some of the candidates' ex-colleagues & current colleagues to find out whether the person is good or not.  A lot of these so-called phone calls are done  without the person's consent.  At least when HR people do reference and salary checks, we usually ask the candidate for his/her permission first before we call the referee up.

By the way, in your original message, you asked people on this message board whether or not it is an "invasion of your privacy" for HR to ask you for a payslip.  You then went on and asked "has anyone else experienced this and refused to comply. I feel its just HR trying to cross the "T's" and dot the "I's".  I then went on to explain the reason why HR Dep'ts do this.  You first sounded like you were p*ssed off with your HR dep't and then you had a go at me when I replied to your message.

I also found it interesting that you managed to call your HR department on a Sunday morning and that they told you that "they would let me go for misconduct".    Believe me, most HR people in Singapore don't work on Sundays.   I know because I'm usually the only one who goes into the office on weekends!

Anyway, I hope you are happy with your job offer and that everything works out well for you.

Good luck.

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Olly
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« Reply #6 on: 04 May 2003, 15:59:00 pm »
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HR - pile of ****e.

When it was called personnel it was almost as bad. Can't we get rid of these paper shufflers and worry about people who actually do some work - make widgets or whatever?

An agreement is an agreement. If the boss wants to employ somebody and has made an offer, how dare a useless underling interfere?

And I've got a long list of other kinds of useless prat to sack. A good rant on a Sunday is a fine thing.

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Olly
Grub
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« Reply #7 on: 04 May 2003, 15:59:00 pm »
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Asking permission for reference checks and university degrees are ok but salary is unheard of? As far as I have been employed in the banking industry, I have never been asked to provide payslips or even name my current salary until I got here.

What I find effective is to tell them the actual salary I am on and what I want, and sometimes it can be "bumped up" but this is a free market - you know your own price and what you want to be paid. My reasoning is that if they feel I am worth it, they will pay the salary I want.

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Are they serious??
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« Reply #8 on: 04 May 2003, 16:20:00 pm »
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HR Manager,

Thank you for your detailed email and appreciate your imput.  No-I did not check with my HR on a SUnday morning - thi was done during the week and before my posting.

I one quirk I find hard to grasp - no matter how I try and look at this - is they make an offer, someone accepts and then needs to resign but at the end of the day, the future company is not happy with something after all of their checks, the applicant is left very much in the air with no job. However, that is another matter.

I still feel is is strange to ask for the salary slip and quite an invasion of privacy as we need to give everything else from education, medical report information (which again is highly confidential), whether you are married, have children etc and so forth.

My view is more from my background where this is just not done.

Thanks all for your feed back

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Singapore Girl
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« Reply #9 on: 04 May 2003, 19:19:00 pm »
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HR Manager is correct.  All companies I have worked for in Singapore including MNCs require previous payslips from your previous organisation.
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« Reply #10 on: 05 May 2003, 1:30:00 am »
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an example of thoughtless workers.  Gee. Since the previous one paid THis much we can pay THIs much.  
I guess it matters not how much the worker is worth at the new company.
Hey, if a retired US major league baseball player wants to work in an office setting (maybe in marketing dept), is the HR Manager recommend his salary be similar to his last drawn salary?  
what nonsense!
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Sigh...
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« Reply #11 on: 05 May 2003, 3:29:00 am »
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It's just this type of mindless policy that continues to make the corporate world an increasingly mediocre environment.

Seeking proof of last drawn salary is a great way to motivate a new employee isn't it... yes it confirms they're signing on with a bunch of small-minded individuals who will question every facet of their working life, from timesheets to expense claims...oh dear. To justify this shoddy practice as a check on a candidate's "integrity" serves only to reinforce the negative views people have of the HR function and destroys the discretionary work ethic.

Pay somebody what the job is worth and the results they've delivered. If you don't know what that figure is, you're not doing your job...

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Only in Singapore?
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« Reply #12 on: 05 May 2003, 10:24:00 am »
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Totally agree, Sigh......

'Human Resources' staff in Singapore are a total joke, but this salary slip thing is ridiculous.

A company has an opening; I apply for it; the company offers it to me, offering a salary it's happy with and which they hope I'll be happy with; whether I 'inflate' my last salary is totally irrelevant.....if the company doesn't want to pay that rate, then don't make the offer.

Background checks, verification of qualifications, etc, are acceptable...asking about my salary is not. Just because that's the way things are done here does not make it right.

In my experience, HR people in Singapore are petty-minded, obstructive geeks, and this is a prime example of that.

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Imagine
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« Reply #13 on: 05 May 2003, 12:17:00 pm »
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Pay slips can reflect a lot of things.

If a new employee is willing to settle for less income than his/her earlier enjoyed salary, something might have been going on in the former company.

But, there is something else important.
Some employers want to keep their employees happy and therefor want to pay them at least the same as earlier enjoyed income. A pay slip can help out.

Information of family-status is important as well. It might be a decisive factor in case of a promotion.
Or if you want to give company health insurance to an employee, you at least know what to expect.

Please do not forget, many employers are next to bosses also HUMAN BEINGS and like to give the best they can to their employees.

Therfor asking for a pay slip is perfectly ok. It all depends on what you want to do with such info.

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Baloney
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« Reply #14 on: 05 May 2003, 12:26:00 pm »
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Imagine....you're spouting a load of nonsense.....

To think that HR Depts want pay slips for altruistic reasons is laughable.

When I first came to S'pore I was asked for pay slips. When I asked why they were needed, I was told 'for background checks'. I told HR that information on my pay slip is confidential

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