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ExpatSingapore Message Board 26 May 2012, 22:44:16 pm *
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Author Topic: Request for pay slips  (Read 22836 times)
Malaysian Tiger
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« Reply #15 on: 05 May 2003, 15:24:00 pm »
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my two cents...

a company should make an offer based on the experience and capabilities of the candidate and not based on what the candidate was previously paid.

in any job application that i have submitted i have never written down what my previous salary was.

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« Reply #15 on: 05 May 2003, 15:24:00 pm »
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Imagine
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« Reply #16 on: 05 May 2003, 16:12:00 pm »
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Employer: "Thanks for coming, what's your name?"
Employee: "Sorry, confidentional"
Employer: "Why is that?"
Employee: "This info doesn't reflect the quality of work I produce"
Eployer: "OK accepted. What's your d.o.b.?"
Eployee: "Sorry, confidentional"
Employer: "Why is that?"
Employee: "That also doesn't increase or decrease the quality"
Employer: "Married?"
Employee: "Confidentional as it has nothing to do with my job"
Employer: "Are you Singaporean?"
Employee: "No comment"
Employer: "You don't get the job, you may go"
Employee: "May I please know the reason why?"
Employer: "Sorry, confidentional"
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ter
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« Reply #17 on: 05 May 2003, 16:16:00 pm »
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tell them it is confidential, but if they reallyreallreally must see, it's okay - BUT they cannot keep a copy, and that's it.

And as for this last drawn pay business - what a load of bull. You pay the market pay for a position. Not whatever you can get away with.

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Sigh...
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« Reply #18 on: 05 May 2003, 17:08:00 pm »
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Imagine: your points would be valid if the working world worked the way we all wished it would...ie your boss always has your greatest interests at heart, the company cares about your "career welfare", you are paid in accordance with your talent and results...

The reality as most of us know is very different. So according to your formula, the poor sap whose been underpaid because his boss just didn't like him/felt threatened by him/was racist/was jealous of his qualifications is always forced to be underpaid...oh, his new employer will correct this miscarriage - yeah right!

HR Managers love to quote chapter and verse to us about the "knowledge worker" in the "knowedge economy". That makes you a commodity, just like any other raw material/consumable in business - how do you buy those? Market forces set the price...

"18% grey" here we come...

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what a cheek!
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« Reply #19 on: 05 May 2003, 17:59:00 pm »
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I think it is a gross invasion of privacy for a company to know what my earnings have been.  
As an employer, you are looking for certain skills, experience, expertise etc but would ssurel have a price range within which to offer a salary.  If a prospective employee impresses you with the above, and is skilled in negotiations to bump up the salary, then what's wrong with that?  
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HR Mgr
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« Reply #20 on: 05 May 2003, 23:53:00 pm »
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Hey, there's nothing wrong with asking a candidate what his/her current salary is.  When we are about to make an offer to a candidate, we usually take a couple factors into consideration.  We look at how many years of work experience the person has, his skills and qualifications, what the market is currently paying for someone doing the same job (we look at salary surveys and other comp info), we look at internal equity i.e. what are the other people in the department currently getting paid to do a similar job and we look at the person's current salary.  We also take the candidate's salary expectations into consideration.  eg.  If you are an investment banker and are currently getting a base salary of $150k per annum and you are looking for $250K in your next job, then we would take that into consideration before offering  you a job with our firm.  

Another factor which we have to consider is the hiring manager's recruitment budget.  Sometimes the hiring manager will just tell us that they are not willing to pay any more than $100K for a particular job.  If that's the  case, and the hiring manager is not willing to budge on salary, then there's no point in progressing any further with candidates who are currently earning $100K or more, or with candidates who have already told us that they are looking for more than $100K in their next job.

If the candidate is currently underpaid at Company XYZ, then we want to know about it.  If this is the case, we will usually give the person a good (sometimes huge) salary increase to bring him up to market, when we make him a job offer.  

HR does not usually interfere with job offers.  Our line managers usually tell us what their recruitment budget is for a particular position and we work around that figure.  Sometimes we actually advise the hiring managers to be more flexible with salaries if they want to attract & retain high calibre candidates.  For example, last year, I recruited a lawyer from an MNC.  The person had about 10 years relevant work experience but was grossly underpaid.  I went through all of our salary surveys and found out that the person should have been paid 50% more than what she was getting to do his job.  The Head of our Legal dep't only wanted to offer the candidate a 20% increase on his current salary.  I told him that the candidate had very good work experience and skills and deserved to be paid more.  I also explained that the person was underpaid at his current organisation.

In the end, after a lot of discussion, I managed to persuade the Head of Legal to  hire the candidate and pay him what he was worth.  I'm glad to say that the person is working out really well in our organisation and is well liked by his internal clients and colleagues.  

Since most of you are not Compensation & Benefits specialists, I don't think you really understand how job offers are made.   You may not be happy with your current HR staff but then not all HR staff are the same.

And where exactly are you all from?  I have worked in the UK, Australia, NZ, Hong Kong & Singapore and have always been asked for salary details (not necessarily payslips) by my new employers, along with references.

As a candidate, you can always ask for whatever you want in terms of salary package from your new employer.  HR ususally negotiates with candidates but we don't always give you guys everything that you ask for.   Base salary is just one part of the salary package.  You also need to take other factors into consideration like discretionary bonus potential, car allowance, club membership, housing allowance,  stock options etc.  It's the total package that really counts.

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interesting topic
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« Reply #21 on: 07 May 2003, 16:02:00 pm »
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HR Manager,

Your last paragraph raised an interesting point "It is the total package that counts".

So in the case presented by "Are they serious", the new company has asked for a current pay slip.  The current pay slip may not represent the total annualised package as it would not reflect bonuses and any other allowances, that may not be paid on a monthly basis.

To all of you involved in HR, what would you do in this situation? Would you query the applicant on the differences between the amount stated and the pay slip, assume they are lying like the proverbial pig in mud or realise there are unknown differentials?

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SoWhat
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« Reply #22 on: 08 May 2003, 17:54:00 pm »
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Well you can see HR has ALOT of time on his hands with his detailed respose on this board during office hours.

I wonder what your company would think about the misuse of company assets for such unproductivity?

Typical HR person who is always so righteous.  Like you have always told the truth about your salary when you have moved on to another company.  P..L..E..A..S..E

You also know this practice is NEVER done in Australia and it would take someone like you to introduce such a small minded practice into MNC's in Australia.

Go creep back under your rock.  You are an utter disgrace to your fellow Australians.

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Himey
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« Reply #23 on: 08 May 2003, 20:36:00 pm »
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Tell them to pis* of*.

Invasion yes.

I NEVER answer how much I was earning in my last job. It is not important. Judge me on the quals and experience and if you are jacking them up by 10% then what's the crime. The onus is on the prospective employer to know fair market value for the role. They should not be swayed by your bloated financials expect to say you are not in our price bracket.

If they don't think your worth it then also fine. Move on to the next one.

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Actually you are wrong
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« Reply #24 on: 08 May 2003, 23:07:00 pm »
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Dear SoWhat,

You should check your facts before you have a go at other people on this board.

If you look at the dates and times of HR Manager's posts, you will see that he or she only responded to people's messages on Sunday, 4th May and at 11.53 pm on Monday, 5th May.  These messages were definitely not posted during normal office hours.

Personally, I find HR Manager's postings to be very informative and enlightening.  I am also an Aussie working in Singapore & I can tell you that I have had 2 employers in Singapore do salary and background checks on me before they offered me jobs here.  This didn't bother me at all because the same thing used to happen when I worked in Sydney.  The HR dep't of my new employer in Australia would always ask me for my salary details as well as names of referees.   Also, every time I've been placed into a new job by a headhunter, he would ask me for my current salary as well as references.  

It really isn't so uncommon to be asked for your salary details.  It happens all the time in lots of different MNCS in diff.countries.

I think some of you are getting upset about this topic for no reason at all.  Employers should have the right to check up on new hires and ask for personal information.  It doesn't upset me at all.

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Interrogation
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« Reply #25 on: 08 May 2003, 23:26:00 pm »
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Being asked for your salary by HR is nothing.  How about all of the personal questions which Singapore taxi drivers ask us on a regular basis.

Nearly everytime when I catch a taxi from my condo to Raffles Place I get asked questions like:-

1) Where are you from?
2) How long have you been in Singapore?
3) Where do you work?
4) Do you like Singapore or not?
5) Married or single?
6) Got any kids?
7) Do you own the condo apartment or are you renting it?
Cool How much do you pay a month in rent?
9) What sort of job do you have?
10) You must get paid a high salary, yes?
11) Does your company pay your rent?
12) How long do you plan to stay in Singapore?

I think talking to some taxi drivers here is like being interrogated by the Spanish Inquisition.

And while I'm on this topic, how about the personal Q's which some of my colleagues ask me like:

1) Where do you live?
2) Oh, District 9 & 10 are very expensive.  You must be paid a high salary.
3) How much is your rent?  Does the company pay it for you?
4) Are you on local or expat package?
5) Do you get a club membership?
6) How about utilities?  Does the company pay the bills for you?
7) How come you  get your electricity, gas & water bills paid by the company.  They should pay my bills to since I have been in the company for many years and am in a similar job to you.
Cool How much is your car allowance?
9) How much was your bonus?

It was worse when I lived in Hong Kong.  Some of of my local colleagues used to come straight out and ask me what my salary was.  They spoke very openly about their salaries and bonuses and their mortgages with colleagues.  A lot of them used to compare their packages and staff benefits in the office.  This is prob. the difference between Western countries and Asian countries.  Westerners usually keep their salaries & financial situation to themselves.  They consider this info to be confidential whereas some Asians think that there's nothing wrong with discussing this info in public.

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Front Office
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« Reply #26 on: 08 May 2003, 23:33:00 pm »
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Gang, I'm the last person who you would think would stick up for an HR guy (see my response in the IT headhunter post for example).

However, this time the HR guy is basically right. As a hiring manager and a former grunt who got hired often, giving up salary history is very common.

Those of you with crappy-paying jobs perhaps don't see this because we basically don't care too much about your salaries. But for well-paid professionals, this is par for the course.

For example, I've never dealt with a headhunter who didn't want to know my current comp. And as a hiring manager, I've never considered a professional candidate who wouldn't cough up a number.

Now here's some insider's advice. Don't get pinned down. You know how your HR geeks always remind you how your compensation is more than just your basic salary? Well take that to heart when you cough up a "gross" compensation number.

Your home-leave and car benis? Heck, that's $10k, $15k or more to your basic comp, depending on how many sprogues you've borne.  Got some restricted stock and/or options? Heck, I'm a finance professional and I'm winging it when I value those. You think the HR geeks will be any wiser if you give the upper range?

My point is that you can put your comp in the best light possible without actually lying. And if you're not creative enough to do that, then, heck, you ain't worth hiring.

Besides, in my business nobody really cares about the base comp. It's the bonuses that matter. And they're totally discretionary.

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So what if you lie?
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« Reply #27 on: 16 May 2003, 15:21:00 pm »
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I lied (verbally) in an interview and was asked for myy payslip.  I had actually overinflated my salary by 50% and when HR demanded a payslip, I told them it was private and what I WAS getting paid is no reflection of my worth.  They never asked again and I am now enjoying my 50% pay rise.
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jobsworth
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« Reply #28 on: 17 May 2003, 14:49:00 pm »
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Maybe it's just jobsworth on the part of HR or something to justify their existence!
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beppi
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« Reply #29 on: 02 June 2003, 17:09:00 pm »
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I am generally wary of telling any salary figure at all. For one, they are grossly incomparable between countries and companies because of different tax and benefits systems. When it comes to salary expectations I usually say that a good salary for a similar person in their organisation would also be a good salary for me.
But I once encountered a (typically dumb) Singapore HR officer who in complete earnesty told me that they have "no way" of figuring out what to offer me if I don't tell them my current salary. My argument that I would like to be paid what I am worth to his company, not to some other, didn't impress him either. I did not get any offer in the end (maybe better for me!).
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