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ExpatSingapore Message Board 27 May 2012, 2:42:20 am *
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Author Topic: Help - what do I do?  (Read 5034 times)
leanne
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« on: 14 December 2000, 20:52:00 pm »

I'm sure no one wants to hear about me and my maid problems but I'm at my whits end.  I employ a very nice Philipino girl but unfortunately things are not working out.  I have spent a lot of time with her trying to explain things but to no avail.  It takes her up to 1 week to get clothes washed and ironed. (not to mention the about of clothes she has ruined in the 5 months she has been with us) She tells me she can only clean the bathrooms twice a week even though I believe the bathroom sinks need doing every day.  She only dusts once a week, again she says that is all she has time for. And then she asked me if she could go out last Friday night and I said yes.  I asked her to be back by 10.00p.m. as I needed her to babysit on Saturday night and she therefore needed to get a good nights sleep.  As you can imagine,when she rocked in at 5.45a.m. on Saturday I was not pleased at all.  There was no use me yelling and screaming (I'm not that sort of person anyway) but she seems to be taken advantage of me and I cannot stop it.  My children are at school everyday so I do wonder what she does with her time. This last week she had been sleeping in longer and longer in the mornings.  I ask her to have the breakfast ready by 7.00a.m. and this morning she was still in the shower at 7.40a.m.  Again, I explained to her but I think it goes in one ear and out the other.  Fortunately my children adore her and so I keep saying to my husband (who would like to show her the door now) "don't worry about everything else, she's good with the children, and that is what matters".  HELP WHAT CAN I DO....
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« on: 14 December 2000, 20:52:00 pm »



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expat
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« Reply #1 on: 14 December 2000, 21:37:00 pm »

Take stock. Take a deep breath. And think back to when you were working. Can you imagine ever behaving this way with any of your employers? And if your husband was to be like this with his current employer? You know what would have happened. You would have been quite rightly fired. You are at your wits end. In your heart you know what you have to do, and it is a difficult decision when you feel that your children have becomed attached to this maid.

But she clearly has to go. You can't really even transfer her to another employer, how on Earth could you give her a good reference (although it would be interesting as to how you 'acquired' her!). What you truly need to do is to do what countless other expats have had to do with their irresponsible maids: you need to buy a one-way air ticket to the Philippines and take her passport and work permit to the Ministry of Labour and get it cancelled. You will then have 7 days to get her out of the country or forfeit your $5k security bond. Whatever happens, *do not* let your maid get wind of this or she may run away (almost certainly has a boyfriend who she would shack up with - hope she's been using contraception but probably doesn't know about using it as it is banned in her country). Then - and make sure your husband and/or another adult is with you - give her *one hour to pack* and take her to Changi airport and give her her outstanding wages. My friend had to do this and they used the child locks on the car door so she would not jump out at the traffic lights - so they took her to the aiport early in the morning, and also she wanted to make phone calls but they gave her coins to phone from inside the airport. Make sure she goes through the immigration channel and your responsibility is absolved. Hopefully she won't throw a huge tantrum, which is easier if you have another adult, preferably male, around. If she does throw a fit, just call the police.  

I'm sorry it has turned out this way for you - you're not the first and won't be the last. But she is clearly taking the p**s and her behaviour could get even worse - pregnancy for example - or theft from you. But to get her out of the country is the only way, truly.  Have you read Paul N's account of his maid disaster on this site - go back a few pages on this messageboard  the headline is about his ruined social life.....he had to dispatch his maid too, before she wrecked their family life, like it sounds like it is doing to your sanity.        

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expat
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« Reply #2 on: 14 December 2000, 21:44:00 pm »

Oh, and another thing....with Christmas & New Year coming up she might go completely wild and disappear off to parties, again returning the next day...I would feel very uncomfortable if I were you, going on your maid's recent behaviour.

Obviously you may well wish to have a babysitter yourselves over the Christmas period but lots of expats are away over the holidays and I'm sure that you can easily arrange to have a maid over to babysit in the day or evenings for you if you have fired your current maid.    

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Alison
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« Reply #3 on: 15 December 2000, 0:39:00 am »

Leanne,

If I were you, I'd fire your maid and get a new one.  I'm sure that there are lots of Filipino maids out there who would like to work for an expat family such as yours.

You have specifically asked your maid  to clean the bathroom every day, have breakfast ready by 7.00 am every morning and come home by a certain time on her nights off.  However, she refuses to do what you have asked and thinks she can get away with it.  She is definitely trying your patience and testing you out to see how much she can get away with.

My husband & I have had 4 maids over the past 3.5 years. The first 3 were Filipinos who had all worked for expat families in Singapore.  All of them had glowing references from their previous employers but when they came to work for me, they caused me a lot of headaches.  The problems that I encountered included the maid continuously burning my husband's business shirts with the iron, not taking care in cooking our meals and serving us burnt food or food with her hair in it, inviting her boyfriend and friends over to our place when we were on holidays or at the office and not cleaning the house properly.

I can't believe that your maid would tell you that she only has time to clean the bathrooms twice a week.  I get my current maid (an Indonesian who speaks pretty good English) to clean our apartment 6 days a week.  This includes vacuuming, mopping the floors and cleaning and disinfecting all of the bathrooms.  Some people may consider this to be a bit extreme, but I get eczema and asthma and am allergic to dustmites.  Also, if I didn't ask my maid to clean the house everyday, she wouldn't have anything to do as we don't have any kids or pets for her to look after.  My maid takes 2 hours a day to clean the house including 3 bathrooms.  Furthermore, she does the washing and ironing twice a week for 2 people.  Each washload takes about 45 minutes to go through the cycle.  She then spends no more than 3 hours on Mondays and Thursdays to iron about 10 shirts, a few T-shirts, a couple of pairs of trousers and some casual dresses and shorts for us.

Don't keep your maid just because she gets along with your kids.  You can find a better maid out there who not only will get along well with your kids but will be a good housekeeper.

When I got fed up with my previous maids, I just booked a one way ticket back to the Philippines for them (about S$400.00) , got my maid agency to cancel their work permit and then gave them 1 hour on a Saturday morning to pack their belongings.  My husband & I then drove them to the airport and made sure that they went through immigration.  

Some people may think this is mean, but I did not want to transfer these problem cases to another expat employer.  Furthermore, what really hurt us was that we treated our maids kindly and they took advantage of us.  We gave them Saturdays and Sundays off, gave them their own bedroom and ensuite, bought them a TV set for their room, paid them S$450.00 a month plus a food allowance, gave them a bonus at Christmas time and during Chinese New Year and they still didn't try to do a good job.  All of our maids only had to work a few hours a day and had plenty of spare time to watch TV and read magazines.

Get rid of your maid before she drives you crazy.  You can do much better.

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leanne
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« Reply #4 on: 15 December 2000, 6:42:00 am »

Thank you so much for your advice.  You might be interested to know how I came about this maid.  She was recommended by an American lady "advertising" this maid at a shopping centre notice board.  This lady told me that this maid was fantastic and was very, very sorry to see her go after being with the family for only 10 months.  Apparently they could not afford a maid anymore.  After this maid had been with us for 4 weeks and I saw no improvement I contacted this American woman again and that's when she decided to come clean.  She told me that this maid wasn't very good at all and that if she had told me the truth she couldn't have got rid of this maid.  Quite frankly I would never do that to anyone.  I will certainly take your advice and send her back to the Phillipines.
Thanks again, Leanne
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Abigail
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« Reply #5 on: 15 December 2000, 7:48:00 am »

Oh dear Leanne, we've had that happen to us twice. But don't despair. There are plenty of great maids out there. Next time, consider hiring someone who has not worked for expatriate family before. Give Doris a call at InterMares (they are now advertising on this site) and take a good look at their website. It offers a lot of advice on how to manage your relationship with the girl ... not only your responsibilities but hers also.
Your kids will like whoever you like so don't worry!

Good luck hope it works out.

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expat
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« Reply #6 on: 15 December 2000, 9:39:00 am »

Leanne - How shocking that your maid's previous employer had the nerve to pass on an incompetent maid to a new employer to save her the trouble of firing her! It's disgusting, and I fear, a fairly common practice. Either the employers don't want to pay for an air ticket or/and the maid wants to remain in Singapore and begs the employer to let her have a transfer instead.

I think that she has a moral obligation to pay half of the airfare for this maid back to the Philippines. You can bet your bottom dollar that this lady who "could not afford to employ" this maid found a replacement soon after she left her employ.

I would certainly phone this woman regarding this - take a photocopy of the cancelled work permit and air ticket plus receipt and hassle her for a contribution towards the airfare.  

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PhilM
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« Reply #7 on: 15 December 2000, 10:16:00 am »

The maid is bad enough and should be summarily fired; but the American lady who originally conned you is even worse.

Call me hard hearted if you will, but in your position I would ask this so called "lady" to pay for the ticket 100% as recompense for the trouble she deliberately caused you. I would also not be shy about disclosing her name to rightly warn other people of her.

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Singaporean
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« Reply #8 on: 15 December 2000, 10:37:00 am »

Leanne, my heart goes out to you because I have myself just got a maid for the first time and have been almost as concerned about getting one who doesn't cause problems (not even expecting a good one!) as for our first born I am expecting (which is why we now need a domestic).

When I read this I think of the earlier post I contributed to and would like to reiterate my point for the benefit of so many well-meaning expats who've had their good faith abused by their help.

In my earlier post I said that Singaporeans often avoid maids who have previously worked with expat families because many of these women have become spoiled. Before you raise your heckles, let me explain.

I'm not advocating the cruelty and horrendous treatment you read about. NOT AT ALL!! But expats have to realise that the help here is not like your cleaning lady back home who just lives down the road and is on a par with you intellectually, socially and financially.

Remember that Asians still come from a very hierarchical society and a clear delineation between employer and employee must first be established. Then once trust is built, the formality can recede. It is no different from any other employer-employee, "superior-subordinate" relationship actually.

When I was in the Middle East, I noticed that the local men often touched female European tourists and were very friendly with them, sometimes becoming a little too familiar with the ladies. The men would never do that with their own women because their culture and religion doesn't permit them to. But Westerners come with their own mores and "allow" such familiarities and the locals then don't know there are any borders and end up going overboard.

My husband's family help has been here for 7 yrs and is mutually considered part of the family. She's like a daughter. But at the same time, she has the discretion to know that she is still an employee and we love her for that. She has a day off eventho Indonesians are not entitled to one but because she has earned our trust.

My mother was a school teacher for some 30 years and she always started her first week appearing firm but fair, establishing straightaway who was in charge. Naturally as she bonded with the often troubled teenagers over the months, she could show her softer side and by the end of the year, they loved her like a mother and many still visit her with their spouses and children to this day.

The help here needs to know very early on who's the boss. If an employer lets her off too lightly, she will get smart and take further liberties. Many friends and people on this board have found that once these maids have their day off, the trouble starts. They "get ideas" from other bold helpers, they find "nocturnal employment", they take on boyfriends and why not? They've been given so much latitude. I know a family who gives the maid off every night and the weekend too. I only hope that this does not end in sorrow for them.

The maid agency I use very specifically instructed me not to give my Indonesian time off, which I myself felt rather bad about. This agency actually organises Sunday activities and advises employers to send their maids to these BBQs etc so that the women can have time-out but at least be supervised.

I know many reading this will react in horror but maybe you were lucky your help didn't take advantage of you. Just think of these young women as French au pairs who are after all, young teenagers who want to have a good time in another country but they're here first of all to work and do a proper job.

Like expat said, you would fire a bad employee in any circumstance, whether domestic or office.

Be wary that she may be undermining (deliberately or otherwise) you as your children's mother or indirectly teaching them that your instructions can be ignored willy-nilly.

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Abigail
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« Reply #9 on: 15 December 2000, 11:44:00 am »

And one more thing:

Check to find out when the maid's passport expires. In both cases when we were told this fantastic maid was being released early because the employer was leaving Singapore, we found the passport in fact had less than six months to expiry.

The Philippine Embassy charges a fortune for a new passport, it's over S$400. If your helper's p/p expires in less than six months she can't go anywhere with you! And you'll have to get her a new one. Generally the employer is expected to pay half.

I have done two new p/p for maids, one who I could only keep for a few months because she ended up being totally incompetent. I believe that the employers wanted to release them from their contract early because they didn't want to bear the expense of the new p/p.

Additionally, once she has to get a new p/p, the Phil. Embassy requires you to do an embassy contract. Personally I think contracts are a good thing and I've always had my own with maids in the past (makes it easier if you decide to let her go). But this also costs money and the Embassy requires you to pay a minimum wage and give Sundays off.

So I believe that some employers, not wanting to do an embassy contract and renew p/p, transfer the girls off. By the way this is quite unfair of course if the girl goes through an agency because she also has to pay!

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Funny Stuff
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« Reply #10 on: 15 December 2000, 11:49:00 am »

After hearing of all this trauma over maids, I've got but one question...

If it's such a hassle, why have a maid at all?  After all, many of us have gone years or our whole lives without maids.  We got along fine, didn't we?  Can't you guys cook, clean, and do laundry once a week while working a 40-60 hour week?  Sheesh.

Only in Asia do I hear people bitching about this kind of stuff.  Maids, cooks, and drivers are a LUXURY to most people in the world.  Be glad labor is so cheap in this region that you can afford one at all.  

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Anmari

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« Reply #11 on: 15 December 2000, 12:35:00 pm »

A good reasonto hve a maid is to have a less stressed out mom & dad. Our maid is wonderful !!! I'm still breastfeeding and both kids (2 under 2) wake me thru the night.  Our maid does her best to make sure i can get some sleep does all the cleaning, ironing and cooking and seems to really enjoy our kids.  We were just very lucky i guess.  Keep trying and really interview/quiz the prev family.
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janie
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« Reply #12 on: 15 December 2000, 14:42:00 pm »

leanne-- do you want your kids to just get more attached to this maid giving her even more of an advantage over you? she probably knows that her relationship with your kids is her insurance and will use it as a tool around you. what if she gets really wicked and starts telling your children all the wrong things? they may be more upset and confused when you let her go. sooner the better. i think you have to follow the advice above and take her to the airport. it may seem cruel, but it's only what she asked for. why keep this stress in the home-- stress only causes family, marital , and health problems.
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To Funny Stuff
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« Reply #13 on: 15 December 2000, 14:48:00 pm »

Where I come from, I would have accessible day care and would pay what ever it costs. In Singapore, nobody will take your kids for even a half-day until they are 18 months old. My parents, too young to retire, are, surprisingly, unwilling to move to the other side of the world to babysit while my husband and I try to earn a living so that we can give our kids opportunities that we couldn't afford growing up. All our Chinese neighbours have their extended families to help them and they can't understand how we can cope without them (we wonder too).

Also, where I come from, it is easy to find bonded, reliable, live-out help to babysit and do some chores. If you think a family of six only does one load of laundry a week, especially living in a tropical climate, then you are welcome to come to my house and help.

I am one of the lucky ones with a good helper but I have had my share of trauma getting to this stage.

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Tracey
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« Reply #14 on: 15 December 2000, 14:59:00 pm »

This has been an extremely educational posting and perfect as I am expecting my first child and am starting to look into hiring live-in help. To all those with experience with live-in help-- would you recommend hiring a maid who has or has not worked for an expat family before? Any other good things to watch out for? Thanks!
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