Banking Madness

[New Account]

I moved here recently and opened an account at a local bank that I'd rather not name.

Aside from the usual irritants, I'm running across stuff that to me is totally unacceptable. But before I change banks, I need to know if this is standard procedure for SGP banks--i.e., whether all banks are equally bad.

1) My bank's statements only provide cryptic numeric references to where I've used my NETS/ATM card. That is, Carrefour is not Carrefour, but some unknown number. Same with ATM usage...no details on location, just some cryptic number.

2) The NETS/ATM card seems only to be accepted by major retailers, not restaurants and bars, etc. Is this universal? At home, debit cards were good basically anywhere you could use a credit card.

Thanks in advance for any insight.

New Account

[abc]

Yes, ours is the same. On top of that, Cold Storage take "nets, cash and cash cards", but they definitely don't mean international debit cards. The payment system here is peculiar, see the 2% on credit cards with travel agents.
Our solution: keep the international debit/credit card (MC, VIsa with good exchange rates - UK banks sometimes ripoff here). The debit card gives you cash from ALL cash mashine (hence better than the local NETS card). Carry all around! NETS for groceries/buscard topup, home debit card for all else.

[Cash_card]

abc - just for info.

Singapore is one of those rare countries in the world where the cash card is implemented successfully and in such pervasive use. One being the ERP (Electronic Road Pricing) which uses this on a daily basis in very volumous transactions per day, and many shopping outlets, the library (that is even rarer as a payment system together with the Radio frequency Identity system RFID for book loan & return-thats probably the only one in the world today ...and the technology is perfected locally) & even carparks are now using cashcards. They are not the usual debit cards - we have plenty of those, both international & local with cirrus,net or other systems.

Just so you know that this is a more advanced system that is not known to have survived elsewhere in such volume.

[abc]

I have grand travel experience and consider my views prety realistic. I didn't say the payment system here was bad, just  "peculiar", and gave examples. I'm aware lots of transactions here happen "in volume". It's just the facts I mentioned: I don't understand why such an advanced system doesn't let NETS card from one bank to be used with mashines of another bank (as in the other countries - against a nominal fee, or rip-off as in UK),  or why grossers don't get all "cash cards", or why restaurants don't get NETS. If it concerns costs, the retail banks/merchants can transfer them to the demanding customer. The bank fees here are relatively low, and this should be agreable. Anyway, I have my own solution already mentioned. Keep two-three cards and be happy.

[Cash_card]

abc - good point about the non-transferability of NETS with other banks - i always think that its annoying too. Maybe the DBS/POSB people can explain.

[Bewildered]

I'm not sure what you're getting at. If you have a NETS card issued by any of the 5 participating banks then you can use it at any retailer that accepts NETS. I presume you mean that ATMs are not shared. I agree that is rather strange, as you would have thought from a cost perspective the local banks would be better off sharing a network. However ATMs for the bank I'm with are so pervasive, it doesn't seem a problem to me.

[Pete]

Do what I do; get an American Express card as it can be used virtually everywhere - I even use it if I buy a cup of coffee. You get points for each transaction and I use mine towards airmiles. It's amazing how quickly they mount up.

[New Account]

Thanks everybody. I think the solution will be to get a local credit card and charge everything to that. I presume this should get me the detailed written record of my purchases and eliminate the worry about whether the card will be accepted.

Bewildered: Where I come from, one’s ATM/Debit cards are usable everywhere a credit card is useable. Here, I found that while many retailers accept Nets transactions (e.g., Carrefour, Ikea), many services (i.e., bars, restaurants) do not. I once found myself eating and drinking up a bit, assuming that I could settle with my Nets/ATM card. NOT! One can stick one’s friends with the bill only so many times before one no longer has any friends.

Pete: I'm usually the impatient guy behind you in line, cursing quietly as you whip out a credit card to pay for a cup of coffee.But given the circumstances, I may be joining you...

[maybe]

thinking from the mind of a kia-su singaporean - i think the probable reason  the service places do not accept NETS transactions is either:

- they have to incur additional banking fees and charges (afterall everything costs money here); or

-they do not report some of their cash profits from their register as revenue for tax purposes.
this is a practice some merchants also adopt in canada, where i live. if it is a cash-only transaction, they waive all the govt./provincial taxes that are normally charged. it's a win-win situation for both parties (customer and merchant).

it definitely is NOT technology as someone has pointed out, singapore admittedly, IS very advanced as far as state-of-art-technology is concerned.

[Pete is right]

get an Amex card, or do your due diligence to make sure there are no better offerings out there in the market - i did this recently and couldn't find anything comparable, and use it for everything. Those points/miles ratchet up. I lived in HK for 2 years on this basis and have already flown back to the UK free at least 3 times, with a bunch of points left for further travel. Make sure you set up a debit to pay the whole balance each month automatically, and if you're worried about needing add'l credit that you can't pay off immediately, use a separate card for those purchases.

Use your locally issued ATM, Nets, call it what u will, just to get cash out from ATM.

good luck

[AMEX?]

I have always wondered why people have AMEX cards and not visa?

PETE> American Express card as it can be used virtually everywhere

Hum, I have had big hotels refuse AMEX cards, in UK and happily accept my Visa.
I have never had anyone refuse my visa card if they accept any creditcard at all.
AMEX is not the credicard of choise for me, only had one once becaus is was the company card.
And can you tell me where I can get cash from a ATM with a AMEX card in sigapore?
2 years ago the only AMEX ATM was before customs at changi airport. Not so easy to access, visa, well any DBS and POS bank ATM is OK and probably any other chain also.
Is AMEX so much better in the states? Never had a problem with my visa there but not been there so much.

And points, sigh, i get point on my visa cards also, do you really get more on AMEX, not so sure but do not know.

[Keegs]

You can use your AMEX charge card to draw cash from your current account (obviously not at AMEX)at any ATM that has the AMEX sign.  Works quite well.

[The Answer]

I think the answer to the personal banking quandry is as follows: (1) bank with DBS/POSB because they have the most ATMs, (2) get a DBS Visa/MasterCard and link it to your DBS current account so that you can use it as either a credit card or NETS card, (3) get a KrisFlyer Amex credit card - good for frequent flyer miles especially if you charge your SQ tickets using the card.