Raising children in Singapore

[grinnell]

My wife, who is Thai, and I (American), have an 8 month-old daughter and would like to move back to Asia for myriad reasons in the next several years.  I work in medical imaging and she is an accountant so a move to Singapore or Hong Kong seems to be a logical step.  

A Thai acquaintance here in the US was shocked that we would bring our daugher back to Asia and raise her there.  She suggested we would "ruin" her as a result.  I was shocked and insulted, but I am asking for any opinions on pros and cons of raising a child in Asia/Singapore vs US.  

[This message has been edited by grinnell (edited 06-01-2001).]

[leanne]

Quite frankly I couldn't think of a better place to bring up children.  My husband and I are from Australia and we have 2 daughters who love living here in Singapore.  We love the fact that we can walk around Singapore anytime of the night or day.  Can't do that in Australia.  We also like the fact that the private schools here are not full of drugs.  They are in Australia.  Murders in Australia every day - multiple murders - not here in Singapore.  Do your family a favour - MOVE TO SINGAPORE........YOU WILL NOT REGRET IT.

[jws]

I was raised in Singapore in the sixties, I am now back with my two kids (6 and 9) and I enjoy every minute and so do they. It is a very enriching environment, they have tons of friends (international) are fully bi-lingual and learn a third language.
My wife is socially active as volunteer, does not want to move back. It is good to conduct business here.
Thumbs up for Singapore!

[grinnell]

Thank you for the replies, both positive.  Any negatives out there?  While I previously lived in SE Asia for 5 years I have only visited Singapore and visiting somewhere is not always the same as living there.  In any case, a friend who worked as an attorney in Singapore for years also said he could not think of a better place to raise kids.

Having graduated from high school in the US a "mere" 16 years ago, I can say the environment for children here is atrocious. Between an anti-intellectual environment in the schools and society in general and massive doses of sex, drugs, and drinking at an early age it seems to be kind of a crap-shoot whether your children turn out well or total messes.  Anyway, thanks for the comments and I would like to hear anyone who feels Singapore is not a good place to raise children.

[doggmeister]

I think there is one major reason to consider when thinking of raising children in Singapore in particular and that is the teaching methods employed.

I have many friends who are Singaporean who were taught here and others who were taught abroad. The education system here is geared to results, you will notice this almost immidiately when you try to apply to schools for your child...not only is the waiting list for such schools long but the demand for the best schools is very very high..

The second issue to concern yourself with is the method of teaching employed, it is a system very much based around following basic principles and applying those principles..sounds good right? Unfortunately so rigid is the system that it leaves no room for creative thinking..i.e there is only one answer. And you wil also notice the country is not a particularly artistic or creative environment, dreams of a happy life are measured in terms of cash wealth, not on the US or European ideal of happiness being achieveable as you make it....

As a result you may notice many locals who realise this are quick to send their children to the US or the UK to study despite4 the great expense, I know many Singaporeans who came to the UK to study to avid such a strict regimental system that doesn't allow for the level of free thinking other countries encourage at the classroom....the result? Well sure it leads to a great amount of free thinking that has countries such as the UK and US with very individual thinking people..hence guns, murders on streets etc....but the choice is yours

ps despite being an expat I still work here but I for one am glad for my UK education!

[saazhead2]

Interesting comments.  I have two young kids with oldest in pre-K.  I must admit Singapore is great for its lack of crime, friendly people, and well run systems.  It is tough with young kids (I am from the US so take that into perspective).  It is impossible to get around with strollers.  You do not see many toddlers in public because most are home with maids.  Once the kids are older (say 4-5), I think Singapore will be much easier. It can get a bit boring though.  Shopping, going to the zoo and bird park, and visiting the botantical garden can get old after a while.  Too many places are not ideal for young kids, so the options are rather limited.  

The schools seem great here.  I have heard plenty of comments about the results driven system.  In fact, just this past week a child (~12 yrs old I believe) jumped to her death after receiving her grades for the last term.  The same can happen anywhere though.  It is up to the parents to ease the insane pressure to suceed in EVERYTHING.  However, given the alternative of drug-filled schools, I'd take a bit of rigidity any day.

Singapore is VERY EXPENSIVE.  Keep that in mind.  As long as you are being properly compensated, it is quite nice.  I could have never lived here on my US salary without all of the cost of living adjustments and premiums.  Singapore is also VERY MATERIALISTIC.  This is one of the few things I really dislike about Singapore.  Everyone feels compelled to have big houses, Mercedes or BMW's.  In reality, many of these people are in debt up to there eyeballs trying to live some glamorous life.  The US seems to put much less emphasis on material wealth as a society (certainly there are many American contradictions to this, but as a whole the American middle class seems more infatuated with their kids and their activities as opposed to their kids getting all A's and driving nice cars).  

Good luck with your decison.

[Singaporean]

Doggmeister, as someone who was educated here in the 70s and 80s, I'd agree. But I reckon things have changed A LOT. There's constant self-beating that Singaporeans can't think etc. so the system has changed much. The pressure is probably more tho, on the other hand. But then again, when you think abt Eton where you can register your foetus ...

saazhead2, funny that I just had lunch with a friend today who decided that Singapore isn't as expensive as everyone complains it is. Having lived in "cheaper" Australia and
UK, she decided the taxes were so high, no CPF the cost of living turned out to be deceptively high and she never had any money left. Certainly we agreed that when we were living in London,  eating out was not the given it is here, even on the daily lunch basis.

As for lack of acitivities for children, I don't think you've been to enough outdoorsy places like a lot of the wonderful parks where you can go any time of year   As an avid mountain biker, I actually prefer Singapore than temperate countries because the weather won't kill you, literally

[evehow]

You need a car!  Or strong arms and legs and a huge dose of patience!

[MystiQue]

Just want to make a point that Singaporeans always try to go for the best schools (based on rank), mainly because the chances of them being corrupted are lower. I've plenty of friends who've taken up smoking etc in so-called "normal schools".

[grinnell]

Thanks everyone for all the thoughtful-provoking  and informative posts. I did not, however, quite understand what MystiqueOne meant by corrupting.  Do you mean corrupting as graft, etc., or corrupting as generating bad habits?  Just as I was opening these recent postings I caught this headline: Teen says he shot parents, siblings to death after argument over chores.  The link to the story is: http://www.startribune.com/viewers/qview/cgi/qview.cgi?template=natworld_a_cache&slug=chor06   I don't suppose this kind of thing happens in Singapore.

I am wondering how much you all as expats, or Singaporeans, for that matter, get around SE Asia.  There was mention of limited entertainment/resources for children.  I would assume there are activities in public libraries, museums, etc., or am I incorrect?

As for materialistic, what ideas have any of you developed for combatting that in your own children?  

[MystiQue]

Its not just general bad habits. When u hang out with some of the students from the "normal" schools (depends largely on your luck), you're pretty much influenced to get into clubs with Fake ICs etc and drugs are available in clubs in Singapore if you know the right people. Its sort of a chain reaction. Not all the students in the lesser-known schools are like that, but the probability of your child getting corrupted in that sense is higher. So Singaporeans being the "extremely cautious" type ( I'm being politically correct here) will try to get their kids into the best schools since they believe that these schools provide a better and safer environment for their child to grow up in.

[saazhead2]

Getting off the subject a bit, but I am comparing the cost of living to the US.  Singapore is much more expensive.  I bought a 4-year old car here (Mitsubishi minivan) for nearly 50,000 USD.  The house I am renting is 3 times the cost in the US.  Please note that I am from Houston, which is likely the lowest cost large city in the US.

We have not traveled around SE Asia yet.  Our son is now just 7 months old, so we are very much looking ahead to travelling in the coming year.

I still contend it is a pain in the butt in Singapore with small kids.  We DO have a car, but that only gets you within walking distance.  

Regarding keeping the kids grounded, the key is to give them chores, responsibilities, etc.  Most people have maids to help out.  The key is to utilize the maid to do things allowing YOU the time to spend with YOUR kids.  Many people here have maids who cook, clean, wash cars, walk dogs, take care of the kids, etc.  Essentially leaving the parents with little to no duties except earn an income.  If that is preferred, then why have kids.  No one ever said kids were work-free.....they are a committment for life, not just someone to tote around when it is conveniant.

Violence, etc. does seem to be getting worse in Singapore compared to the literature published in the past 10 years.  In today's paper, an 18-year old stands accussed of raping a 9-year old girl.  No doubt, Singapore is very low in crime.  Just don't be fooled into thinking that it is crime-free.

Everything considered, Singapore is a great place to raise kids.  My only point it that it is not as easy as the US for kids below school age.  Once they hit that age, I think Singapore is far better due to the lack of drugs, violence, etc.  

[Dev]

Just a different perspective here. I returned to Perth recently and caught up with friends - one of whom was brought up in Singapore for a short while as an expat child. It's a safe place to bring up a kid - no doubt about that - and the grounding in maths and sciences you get here is good. But Singaporeans are not known for their creativity and while they are trying to address that - I don't think it's going to be answered in being enrolled in creativity classes.

For anyone let alone a child to be expressive, creative - they need to be in an environment which is relatively expressive, questioning, has choices etc. And therein lies the rub - societies which display these qualities also have other factors such as rebelliousness, anarchy in them - which Singapore, thankfully or otherwise, doesn't have. It is no accident that the 60s which saw a level of social upheaval and expression also saw great works of art and science in the West. It boils down to balance which you're obviously looking to give your children

The other thing you have to ask yourself is how long you intend to have your children study here. Again, my friend studied here but as she got older, returned to Australia to study because her parents had to face the fact that she was going to return to Australia one day to earn a living even though they were based in Singapore. This then brings up inevitable questions too. Good luck with it all.

[Chichi]

Altho I generally agree the Singapore education system can be pretty tough on the kids (all the competition), I don't agree that your kid's gonna be less expressive and open-minded just by going to school here.
There are some locals (look at Nicolette) and some expat kids who turn out great achievers.  
I, for one, went to school for 5 years here.  But that hasn't been a stumbling block in my career at all.  And an american call me a free-spirit.
Another Singapore friend who went to the elementary and high school at Singapore American School, then Raffles Junior College (one of the top junior colleges here) and NTU.  She was snapped up by top firms upon graduation before leaving for MBA in US.  Now she has a great job in New York etc. etc.
The bottom line is, if your kids aren't gonna spend all their years of formal education here, the varied experience's gonna be great for them.  On top of that, having parents who are open-minded and with the right attitude to life always help!

[grinnell]

I liked Chichi's comments.  Even here in the US I have read that once kids get into school (and perhaps before if they are in daycare) the influence of friends and others are often, in aggregate, greater than that of the parents. But, this does not eliminate the influence of parents altogether and that leaves room for parents to cultivate free-thinking and creativity in their children.  

I also wonder, if Asians in general, as is claimed, lack creativity, why do I work with so many researchers who are either East or South Asian.  Research, in essence, I think, is the mental conception of something that does not yet exist.

But, I also worked in education in Thailand (in a past life) for several years and noted that students were rather poor at determining causal relationgships.