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Author Topic: Another question about Maids  (Read 2422 times)
Vivian
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« on: 30 January 2001, 21:02:00 pm »

My maid came up to me last night and asked me whether or not it would be possible for me to  pay her 8 months' salary in advance so that she can set up a business back home.  She told me that she is planning to open up a clothes store back home with one of her friends.  I found this request to be rather strange.  Do maids usually ask for salary advances? I don't think any employer would give their maids their salaries in advance in case they run off and don't come back to work.  Also, what guarantee would the employer have that the maid would continue to work hard for the next few months when she has already been paid her salary in advance?  Do any of you have any thoughts on this?  Is my maid trying to take me for a ride?
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ExpatSingapore Message Board
« on: 30 January 2001, 21:02:00 pm »



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Hmmm
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« Reply #1 on: 30 January 2001, 21:11:00 pm »

I'd be wary on that one...

How do you think your/spouse's boss would take the same request? I know what mine would say.......

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Paul N
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« Reply #2 on: 30 January 2001, 21:32:00 pm »

She may be as honest as the Pope...but I wouldn't give it to her for all the Bibles in the Vatican.  I learned the hard way, one favor does you no favors.  You could end up like me, sending her to Manila on an hour's notice...with police escort right to the gate.
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expatwife
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« Reply #3 on: 31 January 2001, 3:12:00 am »

I strongly suggest you look at the top of this page and click on "show topics for the last (100) days".

Look up "Help - what do I do" posted by Leanne on 6th January 2001.

Then look up (further down the same page) "New Expats Need Maid Transfer" posted on 09/12/2000

I think you will get the idea...I'd get rid of your maid fast! If she doesn't get a loan she will sulk and her work will go downhill. If you *do* give her the loan (and why the Hell should you?) her work will rapidly go downhill as she plans her next enterprise and absconds...yes she will!

I'd love to re-read Paul N's account of his maid disaster - is it still on this messageboard somewhere?    

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Paul N
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« Reply #4 on: 31 January 2001, 8:26:00 am »

Here's the "Cut & Paste" version of it.  The whole mess is still in the archives:


OK, I'm titling this, "An Idiots Guide to Hiring a Maid."
I publicly confess...I did almost everything possible, wrong.

We hired a maid immediately following our arrival here. I admit, we were caught up with the idea of having someone to clean the house and do the cooking. We knew with our living situation, we would be hard-pressed for child-care, so we justified this move in our minds on several levels. If we only knew then...

Within 30 days of her coming into our home her father "died." If you haven't figured it out by now, I have a real weak spot in my heart for family. She was a believable actress and we were naive. We paid for the airfare to send her back to the PI and allowed her a full month to assist her family in getting accustomed to life without the patriarch. Before you all jump down my throat for being an idiot, we had zero point of reference, and I spend the last couple years of my time in the military as the Mortuary Affairs Officer, so death holds a real personal place with me. Call me a sucker if you will, but live in my head for a while before you open your mouth.

Anyway, she comes back and all is well, right up to the point where we inquire about the well being of her family after the death of their elder. "It was a miracle. He had been lying dead for three days and when my sister and I got home and spoke to him, our presence shocked him back from the dead.” (It was only then that we found out that her sister's contract had conveniently run out immediately preceding this familial calamity, providing the perfect timing for an all-family gathering) “He arose and the family had a huge celebration to mark his arising from the dead.” (The writers of the next Bible need to be getting this down.) Needless to say, our pre-sleep conversation was not relaxing in any way, shape or form. (Mistake #1, not retrenching her 5 seconds after the end of the conversation.)

Time passed and we chose to forget it, justifying it in our minds with the fact that she is married and has two children living back in the PI(unbeknownst to MOM, and ourselves for a while). All the while her hubby is working while their family’s maid raises her children in her absence. Family. Life is not fair to everyone and sometimes you have the opportunity to make a difference in another’s life. She was our opportunity. (Mistake #2 – believing we were “doing the right thing.”)

We overlooked several of her tardy returns from her Sunday off, and even chose to let it be when the dining hall floors went unswept for several days in a row, inviting a colony of ants to set up housekeeping. Choose your battles, we thought. Then, when we got to the point that we were consciously avoiding bringing up cleaning shortfalls in favor of promoting, what we thought, was a greater good, the camel folded. I sat her down and discussed our situation with her in as objective a manner as is possible when addressing the most personal of subjects…the day-to-day operation of your life. In return, I received a flow of tears, an extremely sullen attitude and a day later, a request to transfer employers. Not wanting an unhappy $5000 liability, we granted her request, allowing her 30 days to find another family. Her (token) efforts in finding an alternate employer were unsuccessful, and we talked ourselves into granting her request to stay as our boys think the sun an moon revolve around her. (Mistake #3 – continuing to put up with substandard performance based on the ideal that we are somehow making life better for her children in the PI.)

Fast forward to May of this year. We just shut off the light and are awaiting the sandman 8 hours prior to our plane’s departure for our first family trip home in just under a year. The phone startles us out of dozing and I answer to the sound of a man’s (obviously) long-distance voice. “I need to speak to ******* (deleted to protect the innocent children of her family’s name) as her father has passed away,” initiates the conversation. “Who is it,” my wife poses me?” “Someone looking for *******. Apparently her father has died…again” (all the while the phone laying on my pillow with the transmitter uncovered.) I amble down the stairs to her air-conditioned-guest-bedroom-with-attached-bathroom-converted-into-maids-quarters-as-we-feel-the-“maids-room”-only-qualifies-as-a-broom-closet door, and knock to inform her of the phone call. I return to bed, to discuss the situation with my wife. We decide that if she is smart enough to not knock on our door, she will survive yet another assault on our generosity. (Mistake #3 – Not taking her to the airport with us in the morning and putting her conniving butt on a plane back to the PI)

The straw that broke the camel's back relates to our trip to Oz. I told ******* a month and a half prior that she was expected to go with us. She replied initially that she was happy to go. Then, a week later she asks me how long the plane flight is. I replied "7 Hours." "Oh, I cannot fly for 7 hours...I get sick." Having been through Aerospace Physiology while in flight school, I knew this was a load of crap. She is just fine on the 3 hour flight to Manila, but when she wants to stay in Singapore to be with her friends (boy), suddenly she is unable to fly. I told her that this excuse wouldn't be accepted and that we expected her to make the necessary arrangements to accompany us to Oz as part of her employment contract.

The abridged version of the story is that she went to an OB whom she managed to talk into giving her a medical travel restriction covering the dates of our travel following a "procedure."

After all of the crap she had perpetrated on us, I had enough and took all the necessary documents to MOM and they agreed that the travel restriction could not stop me from cancelling her work permit. I did so.

When the morning came for her to go, she refused to leave on the grounds that she was medically unfit to travel. She threw an absolute fit, and acted in a way we had only imagined possible. Luckily, we had the forethought to sequester the boys at a neighbor's house so they would be spared the trauma of this eventuality.

By 0800 I was forced to call the police and get them involved in sorting out this mess. When they phoned the Doctor to clarify this travel restriction, he folded, saying that he only restricted her travel for 24 hours to allow the anesthetic to wear off following the "procedure." This "procedure" was done on the 10th, this was the 14th. Needless to say, she got on the 3:05pm flight to Manila, with full police escort.

Before anyone tries to hang me on humanitarian terms, this is only the briefest of abridged versions of this story. We treated our maid as well as a family member, possibly better as even I don't get paid a monthly salary.

If you are going to hire a person to become part of your family...don't. If you are going to hire a person to perform domestic labor on your behalf, choose mightily carefully. Interview many, and be excruciatingly sure that the one you hire is the only possible choice. If that person clicks so well that you accept her into your family, great...but don't go looking for it.

PS. We have subsequently found out that her "procedure" was an abortion. Apparently that little man that turned up at the airport in a last minute attempt to persuade the policemen to let her go was her boyfriend. I bet her husband and children in the PI would be shocked to find out all the things their Catholic "wife" and "mother" was doing with her spare time here. God forgive her.


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cs
Guest
« Reply #5 on: 31 January 2001, 14:56:00 pm »

Paul N's case sounds somewhat extreme but I wouldn't write it off as a work of fantasy. If you have the time on Sunday, drop by Lucky Plaza. You will find a multitude of filipinas on their day off. What is disturbing are the number of couples you will find. In many cases the men are either Filipino seamen or Indian/Bangladeshi work permit holders. In a recent report issued by the Phillipine DOH, it was estimated that over 20% of returning OFW's (Overseas Foreign Workers like maids) are HIV positive. As an indication of just how serious the problem has become, Singapore Immigration had to introduce mandatory health screening for renewal of work permits and other long term passes. Non-Singaporeans with no family links in Singapore are required to leave if they are found to be HIV positive.

Aside from this, the Philippine embassy, church organisations and other filipino self-help groups regularly conduct workshops for filipino maids in Singapore. One of the more popular courses is how to save so that you can eventually go home and start a business. One of the first things that gets mentioned in these course is NEVER to send money home for relatives to start a business. 9 out of 10 times the relatives would swindle them and all the money would disappear. In some cases, it was their own husband who used the money to get himself a second wife.

For your maid's own sake, you should therefore sit her down and talk to her. If you are really compassionate and want to help, you can perhaps seek assistance from one of the filipino church groups (Novena has a very good and active community). These provide free counselling services and arrange activies that might be a healthier alternative to the company that she is keeping now.  

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Caroline
Guest
« Reply #6 on: 31 January 2001, 18:35:00 pm »

I'd offer very earnestly to help her save by putting half the next 16 months salary month by month into an account she can't touch - because you REALLY want to help her. Keep offering her this whenever she asks, telling her that its no trouble and you really don't mind doing this if it helps her and sell her on how fantastic it will be at the end of 16 months when she'll then have all the money  she wants.
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What can we do?
Guest
« Reply #7 on: 31 January 2001, 19:57:00 pm »

If those figures about HIV incidence above are true, and even if they are only half true, then what we are seeing unfold is a human tragedy that I find rather depressing. What is even more depressing is its inevitability. After all, when they have to spend 50 weeks a year (and sometimes 2 years) away from their husbands, isn't inevitable that many will seek alternative company? And when they discover that they can earn more in one night in Orchard Towers than in a month of ironing and cleaning that some take that route to supplement their incomes?

What's the answer? I don't know but I suspect that if this problem gets worse then the Sing government will have to stop issuing visas for OFWs. Sure it will cause inconvenience to many families (although I suspect good quality, affordable child care facilities will develop to fill the void). Sure some people will need to learn to make their own beds. Perhaps most seriously the Philippines economy will have to make do without the overseas remittances. But then isn't that worth the cost of an AIDS epidemic?

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Vivian
Guest
« Reply #8 on: 31 January 2001, 20:50:00 pm »

Thank you for all of your comments and advice.

My husband & I are going to sit down and talk to our maid this evening and tell her that we will not be giving her eight months' salary in advance.  I spoke to the employment agency where I got the maid from today and they also strongly advised me not to give her any money in advance.  They told me that some maids will try anything to get loans and cash advances from their employers.  The employment agency said that if I gave my maid her salary in advance, I would be at her mercy and there would be no way that I could get the money back if she ran off or quit her job.

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To Vivian
Guest
« Reply #9 on: 02 February 2001, 10:57:00 am »

The agency gave you good advice. Sometimes they will intermediate i.e. have a meeting with the girl and/or you to try to help resolve an awkward situation. How did it go?
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Vivian
Guest
« Reply #10 on: 02 February 2001, 11:20:00 am »

Well, my husband & I told our maid that we could not pay her her salary in advance.  WE told her that we had spoken to her employment agency and that they advised us that it was not the norm in Singapore for employers to lend money to their maids. She listened attentively and accepted what we said.  She also told us that it was her boyfriend who wanted her to ask us for a cash advance because he wanted to open up his own business back home.

Our maid is now worried that we are going to fire her over this incident.  Every time I go out she asks me not to cancel her employment pass.  I told her that if she continued to work hard and do the right thing by us, we would continue to treat her well and keep her on.

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cs
Guest
« Reply #11 on: 02 February 2001, 12:27:00 pm »

I am glad that things worked out. Unfortunately this might not be the end of the story. You might want to make the effort to find out more abt this boyfriend who started this whole episode. As menionted before, many of the girls get cheated by the men they meet in Singapore. The stories run the range from abandonment after getting them pregnant to instigation to steal from their employer. Also while she is not your daughter, it would be humane and compansionate if you try to guide her and try to save her from heartbreak.
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expatwife
Guest
« Reply #12 on: 03 February 2001, 2:47:00 am »

I agree with cs. Since your maid comes from a Roman Catholic country where contraceptives are banned, then she is likely to be completely unaware of them. If I were you I think it may be in the maid's best interest if you have a 'talk' with her (just like one would with a teenager!). It is not only a huge problem for her if she gets pregnant (and you too, as you would lose your $5k govt. bond), but as you can see from previous postings here that AIDS is prevalent in South East Asia - who knows what diseases the boyfriend may have, and it may be far worse than STD's... I think it may be wise to buy a packet of condoms for your maid and explain how they should be used (although there is *no way* she would admit that she is having a sexual relationship). I'm afraid that I know of lots of maids who have become pregnant here so it's best not to think it can't happen to your maid. The boyfriend sounds like a nice character doesn't he?      
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