adoption of overseas child by non PR in Singapore

[Robina123]

Has anybody got experience or knowledge of inter country adoption rules for non pr expats residing in Singapore.

We are British nationals with Singapore employment passes and would like to adopt a child from India. 

Singapore government website does not seem to clarify whether you have to become PR to be able to adopt or whether you can adopt as a foreign national in Singapore simply with an employment pass.

If anybody has any experience or understanding we would be most grateful.

Robina

[Caligirl]

Robina:

There are two really helpful "regulars" on this board -- Dreadful Mummy & Scummy Mummy, who both have a great deal of knowledge on the overall topic. Unfortunately, past threads to provide this information have been deleted because they apparently contain information that might be viewed as promoting certain adoption agencies .

I suggest that you email one or both of these wonderful women directly (if you check out of few threads on this board -- particularly the one about "Flying With a Heavy Baby," you will see both of their identities. They are clickable.

Dreadful & Scummy Mommies, I hope you don't mind the personal referral!

Alternatively, Robina, you could repost your question & ask people to email you directly with advice. Since you are a registered member, people who want to get in touch with you can email you directly -- all you have to do is change your profile to allow email. Hope this helps!

[Scummy Mummy]

Not at all, Caligirl. Was going to reply to Robina when I got a chance, but probably better for her to e-mail me rather than for me to waste time writing a reply which might be deleted.

With my job, my "heavy baby", my husband, 4 cats and running around town buying folding prams  I certainly don't have time/energy to run/promote adoption agencies. Just want to help others get their own baby, heavy or otherwise, on a strictly pro bono basis!

[Scummy Mummy]

Ok, have a spare mo between the above so reply for general consumption here:

(1) I THINK (but call MCYS to check) that one of you has to be PR to adopt in SG. I know one UK couple who had to get PR especially to adopt (4/05). Just one of you can be PR (I am, husband isn't, was no problem).

(2) Your big problem is that a foreigner can't bring in a foreign baby for adoption unless their country guarantees citizenship (Nov 2006). THe UK government will not guarantee citizenship (it's at the discretion of the Home Secretary) so you cannot bring in for adoption here.

BUT .... and this is where I get less sure.....


The High Comm says, and, with all due respect to them, it's hard to get a straight answer, that to get a UK passport it has to be:

(1) legal in country of birth
(2) legal in Singapore (if you choice to legalise adoption here)
(3) then you'll get (probably) UK passport.

We chose in the end to adopt from Singapore since (1) and (2) are therefore the same.

A poster on a previous thread "Loophole" (Loophole, please can you e-mail me, I'd really like to find out how to do this) said that they adopted from Cambodia recently (1), skipped (2) and therefore got (3) no problem. But I have no personal experience of this.

Have you got a contact in India? We were told (by British High Comm) that India was one of the countries they were OK with, but a contact we were given for India (by Touch) wanted cash in order for us to meet a guy who ran an orphanage who "might" be able to help us (and she implied we were too old and wierd for not trying for bio kids first). We weren't impressed.

Best of luck.

N.B. I am not an agent and am not promoting any agency. Although our agent got us a baby, I'd prefer to do it a different way next time around.......

[great]

Hi,I understand the inconvienence caused in singapore as i have gone through the process also. Adoption is supposed to be enjoyable not ugly. It is actually a very smooth and happy beginning. everything is different here. i wonder yyyyyy

[mum 2-2]

We too are British, both PR and adopted both of our children here in Sing.
Robina123 - I know of people that have adopted indian babies here, so it can be done, although I'm not sure that's quite what you want.

Both of our children were already in Sing and adoptions legalised here but we have a fight on our hands with the HO to issue citizenship for our daughter as she was born in Malaysia. The application has been rejected and her current passport will expire next year.
Sorry I can't help much on the legalities required for an Indian adoption but I wish you well. It can be a very bumpy road to travel on but oh soooo worth it.

[Aliya]

Hi, I have done all this, know all the ins and outs so you are welcome to contact me and I can assist.  No, I don't promote any particular agent but do know the ropes having adopted both my daughters who are ethnically Indian, in Singapore. 

[Expat living]

There was an article in expat living about some expats who'd set up a business to help couples wanting to adopt. I think they had Indian babies. You could contact them?

[I wonder]

Has anybody got experience or knowledge of inter country adoption rules for non pr expats residing in Singapore.

We are British nationals with Singapore employment passes and would like to adopt a child from India. 

Singapore government website does not seem to clarify whether you have to become PR to be able to adopt or whether you can adopt as a foreign national in Singapore simply with an employment pass.

If anybody has any experience or understanding we would be most grateful.

Robina

Why don't you adopt a British orphan? It is pure curiosity as I see western couples adopting orphans from lesser developed countries. Orphans are orphans, no matter where they are from. All of them need plenty of love. So why do western couples seem to prefer adopting from other countries and the children end up looking visibly different from them. If a couple adopt from own country, there is a higher likelihood that the child will look like them in terms of skin colour, and hopefully avoid being asked in school on why they look different from their parents.

[A mum...]

(a) because we live here and so can't adopt in the UK (b) it's incredibly difficult to adopt in the UK - there are not as many "orphans" available as you might think. There are almost no young children.

Why do you care?

[Think about it]

Has anybody got experience or knowledge of inter country adoption rules for non pr expats residing in Singapore.

We are British nationals with Singapore employment passes and would like to adopt a child from India. 

Singapore government website does not seem to clarify whether you have to become PR to be able to adopt or whether you can adopt as a foreign national in Singapore simply with an employment pass.

If anybody has any experience or understanding we would be most grateful.

Robina

Why don't you adopt a British orphan? It is pure curiosity as I see western couples adopting orphans from lesser developed countries. Orphans are orphans, no matter where they are from. All of them need plenty of love. So why do western couples seem to prefer adopting from other countries and the children end up looking visibly different from them. If a couple adopt from own country, there is a higher likelihood that the child will look like them in terms of skin colour, and hopefully avoid being asked in school on why they look different from their parents.

It's not as if you just pop out to the orphan shop and pick one up. Western countries have extremely long wait lists and countless bureaucratic hoops to jump through, not to mention prohibitive costs involved. If orphans are orphans and all that matters is love, as you say, then why would skin color matter? God forbid a child is asked in school why he looks different from his parents. 

[Scummy Mummy]

Well in our case we LOVE Madonna and Ang so we thought if they've got one we want one.

Also we're both spectacularly ugly and warty so we thought we'd adopt a beautiful child rather than reproduce our genes.

And (obviously  ) we're in Singapore so there aren't a lot of British orphans about.

Quite frankly we didn't give a rats arse what colour our child was. No doubt he will get asked that and similar questions by nosey, insensitive people but hopefully he'll feel loved and secure enough to tell them to sod off.

[Stolen babies]

Has anyone given a thought to babies that may have been kidnapped to order, even snatched from mothers in the stree. There is a very big underworld activity/buisness in sort of thing.  Mexico is an example.

[Actually]

The more likely scenario, at least when it comes to children adopted from Southeast Asia countries, is that the family has sold the child. Many very poor families see selling a child as a way to preserve the family. With no access to birth control, families can grow big, and if selling one child means that the rest can survive, from extra money as well as one fewer mouth to feed, some parents feel pressure to do so, even when they are breaking their hearts to do it. It is a different scenario than out-and-out child snatching, but equally tragic. Sadly, most of the children sold are trafficked for reasons such as slave labor and prostitution. I think that with babies adopted from these countries, it is incredibly difficult to tell exactly how or where this baby came to be for adoption.

There are some organizations that are trying to stop this from happening at the source, by providing direct support to abject poor families - I know of one Singapore-based organization, called Riverkids Project, operating in Phnom Penh - their website has tons of information and they accept donations, but they do not assist with adoptions.

That said, I would be shocked if children who are born in Singapore and adopted here aren't done so through completely legal and transparent channels.