Kenichi Ohmae on Singapore

[crapola]

The fact is that 85% of Singaporeans are forced to live in housing that is well below the standards that are enjoyed by the vast majority of people who in live developed countries.  Sorry but that is the truth.

That is the truth because you say it is so?

Be fair and honest, Kubes.  Some evidence please.

[Kubes.SG]

The fact is that 85% of Singaporeans are forced to live in housing that is well below the standards that are enjoyed by the vast majority of people who in live developed countries.  Sorry but that is the truth.

That is the truth because you say it is so?

Be fair and honest, Kubes.  Some evidence please.

Looked around to see what studies have been done on Housing "quality levels or standards" and unfortunately I could not find any that referenced Singapore's HDB flats.  So in the interest of a quick response I can't provide any quantitative data (except the fact that >65% of Singaporeans would emigrate if given the chance),  so I am providing some qualitative evidence that will require you to read the descriptions and look at the images of typical "heartlander housing" in developed countries.  Now I accept that these are marketing materials for the houses involved, but I have deliberately picked average locations (Lancashire, Canberra, Auckland and Cincinnati) at median prices for their locations, that fairly average local people would live in.

Mr BM. please don't delete these links.  This not to send people off to competitive sites but a response to Crapola's request for evidence.

http://www.homesonsale.co.uk/beautifully_presented_modern_3_bedroom_semi_detached_family_home-o66829-en.html

http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/ah0078?lid=167246927&pid=1391563754


http://www.sibcycline.com/viewlisting.asp?mls=1125487&b=CIN&p=RESI&s=SFRD&m=1&sender=SearchResults&a=742-Dayton-St-Hamilton-East-OH-45011

http://www.realestate.co.nz/767333

These properties would be owned by the typical hardworking "heatlanders" that would own HDB flats in Singapore.

Tried to find some similar pages advertising HDB flats and could not.  Probably shouldn't post them anyway as that would only upset BM.

So is this evidence, both quantitative and qualitative, support the point that Singapore HDB housing is well below developed world standards?

Oh, and by the way most of these are cheaper than a 4BR 1,300ft HDB flat.

If you want to see what a high-end property looks like in Australia, for the price of a 1800sqft shoebox on the 3 floor of  The Sale, let me help:

http://www.allhomes.com.au/ah/ah0078?lid=-228941984&pid=1390599998

[QOL]

[[/quote]

That is the truth because you say it is so?

Be fair and honest, Kubes.  Some evidence please.
[/quote]

Looked around to see what studies have been done on Housing "quality levels or standards" and unfortunately I could not find any that referenced Singapore's HDB flats.  So in the interest of a quick response I can't provide any quantitative data (except the fact that >65% of Singaporeans would emigrate if given the chance),  so I am providing some qualitative evidence that will require you to read the descriptions and look at the images of typical "heartlander housing" in developed countries.  Now I accept that these are marketing materials for the houses involved, but I have deliberately picked average locations (Lancashire, Canberra, Auckland and Cincinnati) at median prices for their locations, that fairly average local people would live in.

Mr BM. please don't delete these links.  This not to send people off to competitive sites but a response to Crapola's request for evidence.





These properties would be owned by the typical hardworking "heatlanders" that would own HDB flats in Singapore.

Tried to find some similar pages advertising HDB flats and could not.  Probably shouldn't post them anyway as that would only upset BM.

So is this evidence, both quantitative and qualitative, support the point that Singapore HDB housing is well below developed world standards?

Oh, and by the way most of these are cheaper than a 4BR 1,300ft HDB flat.

If you want to see what a high-end property looks like in Australia, for the price of a 1800sqft shoebox on the 3 floor of  The Sale, let me help:




[/quote]

If you want to get a house much bigger than HDB flats at a lower cost, you don't need to go far. Half an hour drive to Malaysia will find you such homes. You can find many more mansions for the price of a HDB flat in India, Indonesia. Do these countries have abetter quality of life than Singapore?. The point is that is HDB living equivalent to slum living as you imply? Of course not. Singapore is contrained by its size and thus you will see mostly apts. But these apts are very comfortable to live in and are of decent size to house  a family. If the size of apts/ houses is used as a measure the quality of housing and life then Japan must be right at the bottom of the table for QOL.
HDB estates are all very conveniently located with public transport at their doorstep and shops/amenities a stone's throw away. There is very little crime. When someone gets a heart attack ne can get whisked away to the nearest hospital within 15-20 minutes in most cases. You stay in a suburb in a Western country with sprawling bungalows and a heart attack patient will most probably end up dying during the 1 + hour journey to the nearest hospital. This is what QOL is all about.

[Kubes.SG]

Good for you QoL.  You are one of the lucky few Singaporeans (<35%) who think HDB living is great, and want to stay living in Singapore.

[chaos theory]

Just to back up Kubes point here, in April I sold a 5 bedroom home on 800 sq m block in Canberra fully renovated and just 1 bus stop ( 6 minutes) from the central business district.

The price $835k. To put this in perspective, the average household income in Canberra is $10k higher than the rest of Australia and Australia on average is $5k higher than Singapore.

A similar landed property in Singapore would be $10 mill+. It points out the huge inflation of Singapore property with respect to population income.

[On the rise???]

Most of them have not woken up to the reality that the West is in decline and the East is on the rise. I thought they would have got the message from the Olympic results itself.

This also applies to  quality of living.

East is a sweatshop for products that West is shopping.

Now that West stopped buying for a while, East has nothing left. How do you make this On the rise?

[Ha Ha Ha Ha]

Around 85% of Singaporeans live in HDB flats.  Though the ownership level is very high, when compared to the housing that the vast majority of a developed country's population would live in, the actual quality of HDB housing is very low.  HDB must be viewed as the "normal or standard" level of housing in Singapore.

Do not compare it to public housing in other countries which vary greatly above and below HDB quality.  The key difference is that public housing in developed countries often supports no more than 5% of the population - very much the exception, not the norm like Singapore.

----------

To the next poster, you are speaking absolute CRAP.  Home ownership does not correlate to QoL.  Who would choose to live in tiny, cramped, noise, badly fitted out housing, if the had a choice.  Even if Singapore has high home ownership (may not be the highest in the world) it has been done through CPF contributions.  That seemed smart to help normal income earners get started, but the result is that people end up retiring with nothing to live off, except for their kids hand outs.  Those with out kids clear tables at McDonalds or are cleaners.  Do you really want to get into the subject of the "great success" of Singapore HDB housing and retirement?

Try staying in a new HDB estate and let me know how bad the quality of housing really is. The only difference between the newer HDB estates and condos which the expats are overpaying for is the absence of some facilities and it not being fenced up. HDB living in Singapore is a luxury when compared to staying  in detached homes in the streets of crime infested Western cities where the owners are constantly afraid on when their homes will get burgled.

Home ownership whether it is  an overpriced HDB apt or not will give the owner a sense of pride and self-worth. They would feel much better than those staying say in Vancouver many of whom  will have to make do with rental homes for the rest of the lives - not because of choice but because they can't even afford the much cheaper homes.So what is the use of staying in a beautiful country with strong arts/cultural scene and lesisurely lifestyle when you will not know when you are going to be evicted from your rental home and search for another place like a nomad.

Crime infested cities?  You are confusing Western Cities with Sao Paolo or something. Like someone mentioned, we don't get the best quality locals on this *****

Why you like dat?

[The best days]

Most of them have not woken up to the reality that the West is in decline and the East is on the rise. I thought they would have got the message from the Olympic results itself.

This also applies to  quality of living.

East is a sweatshop for products that West is shopping.

Now that West stopped buying for a while, East has nothing left. How do you make this On the rise?

are over for the western type of economies (including Japan). Technology is easily available and any country with an educated population can do the same (at a much lower cost). If the newly developing countries were to stop manufacturing and programming, the west will suffer a lifestyle crash as they have lost their ability to produce at a reasonable cost. As an example, a LCD monitor would be so expensive to own (not too sure if there are any indigenous U.S. company that can make one without buying 90% of the components from other lower cost countries) , lifestyle would crash. 

[The question is]

Most of them have not woken up to the reality that the West is in decline and the East is on the rise. I thought they would have got the message from the Olympic results itself.

This also applies to  quality of living.

East is a sweatshop for products that West is shopping.

Now that West stopped buying for a while, East has nothing left. How do you make this On the rise?

are over for the western type of economies (including Japan). Technology is easily available and any country with an educated population can do the same (at a much lower cost). If the newly developing countries were to stop manufacturing and programming, the west will suffer a lifestyle crash as they have lost their ability to produce at a reasonable cost. As an example, a LCD monitor would be so expensive to own (not too sure if there are any indigenous U.S. company that can make one without buying 90% of the components from other lower cost countries) , lifestyle would crash. 

who needs who? Or is it both need both?

[from FT]

As a letter-writer (prof Peter Navarro, UC Irvine) said it last month in the financial times:

"My research clearly shows that much of China's "competitive" advantage comes instead from five elements of its mercantilist policies: currency manipulation, illegal export subsidies, theft of intellectual property, and lax environmental and health regulations that have turned China into the most polluted large nation in the world."

I have no doubt that a better future lies ahead for China, but a little less swagger and triumphalism would be advisable.