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ExpatSingapore Message Board 27 May 2012, 16:00:59 pm *
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Author Topic: Are you ready for this?  (Read 7821 times)
Solo Crusader Kubes
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« Reply #45 on: 15 September 2008, 11:31:26 am »

Dude, give it a rest - you are flying solo.  Those 'idiots' with a science background are largely in agreement as the cause of the current episode of global warming and disagree with all the assertions you have made in this thread.

BM, consider moving this to the talking point forum? it don't really see how it relates to the day to day living in Singapore per se
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« Reply #45 on: 15 September 2008, 11:31:26 am »



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BoardManager
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« Reply #46 on: 15 September 2008, 12:13:51 pm »

We will probably can it and chuck it out. Getting very tired of this tirade too. Sad
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eh??
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« Reply #47 on: 15 September 2008, 12:56:05 pm »

Junebug says

Quote
You're a little slow tonight OM.
But then on the sewing circle she says avoids this one 'cos it's so nasty.

You sure you know what/where the sewing circle is?? No Junebug - fareast or any other variety - on that board.
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specialist
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« Reply #48 on: 15 September 2008, 14:22:16 pm »

Kubes, ffs, stick to property analysis. you are quite good at. limited range of data, limited analytic skills required,no science. (as for OM, who cares, go back to beating kids, that seems to be your main area of specialization).
why the hell you think you __ clearly not an atmospheric scientist__ are in a position to provide your own 'independent' reading of hte literally thousands  of *peer reviewed* scientific studies that support the idea of man-made climate change. note 'peer review' means the study and its conclusions must pass muster with people who actually do understand that specialized scientific area, as well as understand what methodological standards make something a piece scientific reseasrch rather than anectode-fed fed fantasy.

"not proven"? get a clue - nothing in science "proven" in an absolute sense. wanna hold out on their being no proof that smoking increases your risk of lung cancer? sure, there were lone scientists (mostly funded by tobacco companies) who went against consensus on that one too.

scam?? I wish the world's environmentalists were a fraction as powerful as you imply. no, the message that human-induced greenhouse gas emmissions could be affecting our climate has been fought tooth an nail by those with the biggest interest in fossil fuel consumption - and those guys have a lot more cash and lobbying power than uh, greenpeace.

oh, and the unprecedented rate of melting of artic ice this year? a scam too, no doubt, aided and abetted by those tree-huggers at NASA??
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Old Mike
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« Reply #49 on: 15 September 2008, 16:10:41 pm »

It has been interesting to observe all the Ad Hominem arguments emmitted by the wind power fans.A sign of desperation.
I do understand the mathematics of scale. Unfortunately they are of limited applicability to wind turbines. If the turbines get much bigger than they are at present the wing tips will be travelling faster than sound.
In order to extract more power one must install more units.
Wind power is, and for this reason must remain, where the pertochemical industry was at the beginning of WWII.
Certainly a wind turbine emits no carbon dioxide when operating, but there is siginificant production of carbon dioxide in their construction, and as they tend to be sited in virgin, enviromnentally sensitive areas, they do siginificant damage. They also kill large numbers of birds and bats.
I would be quite happy to live next to a nuclear power station, and there are many geologically stable parts of the world where waste could be buried safely. Politics prevents this at present.

One final point:
If the money squandered on the Toyoto nonsense had, instead, been applied to commercialising fusion as a power generator we would not be having this debate at all.

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Astronomer
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« Reply #50 on: 15 September 2008, 21:27:55 pm »

You have to be a complete inbred moron if you actually think that is an accurate picture of the sun.  If you're interested I have several hundred and can pull one up in real-time if you want to swing by my office.
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fareastjunebug
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« Reply #51 on: 15 September 2008, 21:42:45 pm »

OM

But first, for the unregistered posters here, I'll be polite and properly respectful for this delicate and respected board member.

I believe the tip speed on turbines is much below sonic velocities and can be controlled that way to optimize the energy capture from the wind - you simply load up the torque on the generator shaft to reduce the rotor frequency. So, upscaling is possible much as the petrochemical industry has scaled up.

You are right that wind turbines are hard on things that fly and even television reception. So, build them outside of major flyways and use cable feeds. Though I have to say, the wind fields I see in Texas are hardly unspoiled areas - they tend to be in farmland and ironically, even in depleted oil fields.

As for carbon dioxide formation during construction - yes that is true, but so do IGCC's. And IGCC's generate carbon dioxide in a fixed ratio for every MW produced.

As for fusion, I'll leave that to the physics crowd.
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Kubes.SG
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« Reply #52 on: 15 September 2008, 22:25:23 pm »

Well I have certainly been upsetting people here some of the points I have been making.

Let me start:

2,500 UN IPCC supporting scientists and thousands more peer reviewed research papers all confirm that Global Warming is happening and is primarily man-made.  These are lies built on lies.  Barely 50 scientists have contributed to the IPCC reports, and have authored, co-authored and peer-reviewed much of the global warming dogma.  There is NOT overwheelming agreement amongst scientists.   
Start with this:  http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,24315169-7583,00.html

Follow up with this petition http://www.petitionproject.org/  and this report: 
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2008/05/17/32-000-deniers.aspx


scam?? I wish the world's environmentalists were a fraction as powerful as you imply. no, the message that human-induced greenhouse gas emmissions could be affecting our climate has been fought tooth an nail by those with the biggest interest in fossil fuel consumption - and those guys have a lot more cash and lobbying power than uh, greenpeace.
If it is not a scam, what should it be called?  Facts are there is no consensus amongst scientists.  The science of global warming is not settled.  Rising C02 does not cause global warming it an outcome of warming.  Emissions Trading Schemes that could cost $75 Trillion will not "fix global warming".  Govts worldwide have already invested $50Billion to "confirm Anthropological Global Warming" without success.  Over the last 20 years there has been a massive shift in political power and influence now supporting the dogma of AGW, largely supported by widespread community belief our actions are the primary contributor to global warming.


oh, and the unprecedented rate of melting of artic ice this year? a scam too, no doubt, aided and abetted by those tree-huggers at NASA??
Try this link for a very detailed discussion as to what is happening in the arctic:
http://www.fcpp.org/pdf/FB64%20Arctic%20Sea%20Ice.pdf


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Old Mike
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« Reply #53 on: 15 September 2008, 22:59:11 pm »

Quote
I believe the tip speed on turbines is much below sonic velocities and can be controlled that way to optimize the energy capture from the wind - you simply load up the torque on the generator shaft to reduce the rotor frequency. So, upscaling is possible much as the petrochemical industry has scaled up.

Dear bug,
The energy that can be extracted from a single wind turbine depends on the length of the blades. A good exposition of the physics and mechanical engineering involved can be found here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wind_turbine_design.

It is not possible to simply "load up the torque" as you suggest.
As turbines get larger they become more mechanically complex and more maintenance intensive. If sited in remote areas maintenance becomes more expensive.
There is no doubt that wind power is appropriate in remote areas far from a grid, but its contribution in the mainstream is at best marginal.
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TheWrathOfGrapes
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« Reply #54 on: 16 September 2008, 9:39:37 am »

- you simply load up the torque on the generator shaft to reduce the rotor frequency.

I think we should all reduce the frequency of all these torque talks and shaft it up places which break wind. The velocity of hot air expelled through the orifices here has enough speed to power up the moulin rouge, and the heat generated is enough produce steam for the turbines.

Chill...

 Wink
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Old Mike
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« Reply #55 on: 17 September 2008, 17:21:51 pm »

If anyone could harness the hot air from the politicians and the whines from the bankers we would have all the energy we need.
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sunsetmel
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« Reply #56 on: 18 September 2008, 0:29:10 am »

Say what you like folks... to me it looks like an amber light in the traffic light ! Lol  Cheesy
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Kubes.SG
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« Reply #57 on: 19 September 2008, 23:37:42 pm »

Good article.

Absurd claims of alarm

Manmade global warming is a myth, and the cult surrounding it will fade into obscurity, says JOE FONE , but the costs and taxes imposed to combat this imagined menace will remain.

In 1998, a peculiar thing happened. Global warming, such as it was, came to an end. Since then, global temperatures have trended downwards, while carbon-dioxide emissions have risen.

The disconnect between carbon-dioxide emissions and global temperature trends proved what many scientists had been saying for some time, that the two are unrelated. But this should have been intuitively obvious in any case because industrial carbon dioxide represents only a tiny percentage of the atmosphere, so it is hardly likely to be a powerful climatic driving force.

It stretches credibility to suppose that such a vanishingly small percentage of a naturally occurring minor gas would be potent enough to drive Earth's climate into meltdown. But it stretches credibility even further to suppose that reducing this fraction by a few per cent would then be sufficient to reverse it.

If the Earth's atmosphere were that sensitive to infinitesimal tweaks to its minor constituent gasses, we would not be here today debating it, because the climate would have spiralled out of control millions of years ago when carbon-dioxide levels were some 10 times higher than today.

In his alarmist movie An Inconvenient Truth, Al Gore suggests the Earth's biosphere is also incapable of surviving slight shifts in temperature, where less than 1deg rise over a century is cause for alarm. But if this were so, mankind would not have survived the Roman warm period, the mediaeval warm period or the 1930s dust-bowl era, when temperatures were consistently higher than today.

So there is nothing unusual in either higher temperatures or higher levels of carbon dioxide. Indeed, history shows that higher temperatures are entirely beneficial to mankind.

It was during the mediaeval warm period, after all, that most of Europe's cathedrals were built, England was balmy enough to be a major wine producer, and Eric the Red colonised Greenland.

So what is going on? What is so special about carbon dioxide and 0.6deg warming over 150 years that has the political world in such a flap?

Why is carbon dioxide considered by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) to be a polluting scourge inimical to life on Earth when the opposite is true?

Despite mounting evidence that manmade climate change is a myth and the science behind it is tenuous at best, the issue is so politically entrenched that the United Nations Human Rights Council has made climate change a human-rights issue.

This astounding development reflects the attitude of Maurice Strong, adviser to UN Secretary-General Kofi Annan, who said: "We may get to the point where the only way to save the world will be for industrial civilisation to collapse."

Not to be outdone, the United States Undersecretary of State for Global Issues, Timothy Wirth, declared: "We have got to ride the global-warming issue. Even if the theory of global warming is wrong, we will be doing the right thing in terms of economic policy and environmental policy."

Even worse, Richard Benedick, who headed policy divisions of the US State Department, said: "A global-warming treaty must be implemented, even if there is no scientific evidence to back the (enhanced) greenhouse effect".

Yet thousands of scientists are scathing of the IPCC's forecasts and are concerned that science is being manipulated to prove there is a catastrophe facing mankind, when no such threat exists. They warn of the dangers in relying upon computer models, which have proved hopelessly inaccurate, while being used as a basis for massive economic change.

Dr Richard Lindzen, Professor of Atmospheric Sciences at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, said in the Wall Street Journal: "What the public fails to grasp is that these claims (of increased carbon-dioxide emissions) neither constitute support for alarm nor establish man's responsibility for the small amount of warming that has occurred.

"In fact, those who make the most outlandish claims of alarm are actually demonstrating scepticism of the very science they say supports them. It isn't just that the alarmists are trumpeting model results that we know must be wrong. It is that they are trumpeting catastrophes that couldn't happen even if the models were right as justifying costly policies to try to prevent global warming".

Many scientists are concerned that the IPCC is using the implausible threat of catastrophic climate change to frighten governments into introducing drastic economic penalties for carbon emissions solely to undermine Western democracies, scientific progress and industrialisation.

According to the Nongovernmental International Panel on Climate Change (NIPCC), it is precisely because the IPCC is an entity of the UN and is dominated by socialist political agendas that it is predisposed to produce reports championing the manmade global-warming hypothesis.

Yet the 1990 IPCC Summary ignored satellite data that showed no such warming, while significant textual alterations were made to the 1995 IPCC report after it had been approved by the scientists.

The 2001 IPCC report claimed that the last century showed unusual warming based on the infamous "hockey-stick" graph, which was later proved fraudulent by Canadian mathematicians Ross McKitrick and Stephen McKintyre.

The 2007 IPCC report downplayed the effects of solar variability on climate, implying the Sun's massive influence is easily overpowered by minuscule artificial adjustments to a minor natural gas. This is a laughable proposition, yet it is considered sufficient reason on its own to bring about huge economic change affecting the lives of billions of people.

However, as the science behind anthropogenic global warming unravels and the politics based on it becomes untenable, the issue morphs into other hobgoblins: global warming morphs into "climate change" and climate change morphs into "sustainability".

The carbon cult will ultimately fade into obscurity and become a joke, but the costs and taxes imposed to combat the imagined menace will remain.

Meanwhile, the outspoken alarmists who so espoused this carbon-based religion will fade away or stealthily change their tune to sustainability, as though that had been the issue all along.

"A lie told often enough becomes truth," as Vladimir Lenin said.

* Joe Fone is a bibliophile, amateur astronomer and avid reader of science, philosophy, science history and ancient history.
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The object in life is not to be on the side of the Majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the Insane.
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