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ExpatSingapore Message Board 13 February 2012, 10:16:49 am *
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Author Topic: "victory of the people of Gaza" ???  (Read 3319 times)
mr platohead
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« on: 02 February 2009, 9:17:05 am »

"The victory of the people of Gaza was a miracle of God"

http://edition.cnn.com/2009/WORLD/meast/02/01/iran.hamas/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

Does anyone have a clue what Hamas leader, Khaled Meshaal, means by this? Yes, I know it's politics, but he does seem to believe they "won" in some way.

And no, I don't support Israel or Palestine (the issue is too confused for my simple brain), though I do think the Israeli action this time has been criminally excessive.

But I'm just wondering how Hamas can go around saying they "won".

And does anyone think that there is any chance of peace in the Middle East?
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« on: 02 February 2009, 9:17:05 am »



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working_mom
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« Reply #1 on: 02 February 2009, 17:17:04 pm »

Hamas are a group of terrorists using women and children as shields. And they used the people of Gaza to buy out truce!
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Kubes.SG
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« Reply #2 on: 03 February 2009, 9:44:42 am »

The Israelis are a group of terrorists using atrocities 70 years ago against their people to justify their own outrageous atrocities today.  They are a disgrace.  Support by the US and a few others is a disgrace.
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mr platohead
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« Reply #3 on: 03 February 2009, 10:38:20 am »

Well, the Holocaust was the culmination of quite a few centuries of persecution.

And personally, I can't understand the persecution of the Jews. I always thought of the Old and New Testaments as sort of making up the Bible as a whole, with both believing in the same God.

I'm an atheist now, but when I was a kid, I always thought Jews and Christians were pretty much equivalent.
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Splat
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« Reply #4 on: 03 February 2009, 15:04:59 pm »

I guess if all else fails just say you "won" 
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T2K
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« Reply #5 on: 04 February 2009, 11:17:53 am »

Well, they killed some Israelis, which seems to be their ever-present and possibly only realistic goal, so I guess that allows them to put it in the "win" column?

But, Israel is a normal country as per the intentions of the 1948 UN resolution which created both Israel and Palestine, whereas "Palestine" has consistently chosen war and violence, and always lost.
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Manc Man
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« Reply #6 on: 17 February 2009, 21:01:33 pm »

They won because Israels stated aim was to stop them firing missiles into Israel.

The slaughter is over and they are still firing missiles

Plus Hamas know that they will emerge stronger than ever because Israel has just completed the most effective recruiting drive on their behalf in the history of the organization.

Just like they did for Hezbollah in Lebanon a couple of years ago.

You can't defeat a people by bombing their houses, hospitals and schools and killing their children for a couple of weeks and then returning to your own home just 30 miles away.

Don't you think the fathers of the slaughtered children, who know where you live, are going to come looking for you?

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fareastjunebug
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« Reply #7 on: 17 February 2009, 21:14:03 pm »

Manc Man has it right. Hamas still has control of the battlefield at the end of the day. The women can still have more children who hate the Israelis. They can still make or take donations of rockets.

The belief that you can go in and spank a determined opponent in an asymmetric war and ride off into the sunset is getting rapidly disproven. It's amazing how fast people forget history - the Romans had the formula for this type of war (Punic wars). Not advocating that approach by any means.
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Dr. Phil
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« Reply #8 on: 04 March 2009, 13:08:01 pm »

Well, they killed some Israelis, which seems to be their ever-present and possibly only realistic goal, so I guess that allows them to put it in the "win" column?

But, Israel is a normal country as per the intentions of the 1948 UN resolution which created both Israel and Palestine, whereas "Palestine" has consistently chosen war and violence, and always lost.

Every day Palestinians survive the evil Israeli holocaust is a victory.

Israel continues playing its games. Peron has appointed another crook as a temporary PM, playing for time, knowing the US needs Israel more and more due to their continued occupation of Iraq and Afghanistan and with Pakistan about to fall....
 
Israel continues full speed building on occupied lands.
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Dr. Phil
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« Reply #9 on: 20 March 2009, 23:59:40 pm »

Al Jazeerah tv is reporting an Israeli newspaper has printed confessions by Israeli soldiers who claim Israeli snipers executed women and children in cold blood. In fact there is a political programme which is tantamount to holocaust.

I understand the International Court was visited by a delegation who asked it to issue an arrest warrant but they refused claiming they could only issue a warrant to member nations and Palestine was not a nation therefore not a member.  Huh

What happened to the concept of justice?
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T2K
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« Reply #10 on: 23 March 2009, 18:50:51 pm »

If Israeli soldiers executed civilians as you claim, they should be tried.  Israel has punished soldiers for their actions before.

How many arrest warrants has the international court issued for Palestinians that have murdered Israelis?

How many of its men has Hamas ever punished for wrongdoing?

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Dr. Phil
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« Reply #11 on: 23 March 2009, 19:05:28 pm »

If Israeli soldiers executed civilians as you claim, they should be tried.  Israel has punished soldiers for their actions before.

How many arrest warrants has the international court issued for Palestinians that have murdered Israelis?

How many of its men has Hamas ever punished for wrongdoing?



The Israeli veterans group blowing the whistle on a government policy effectively a shoot-to-kill-civilians policy have come forward supported by Israeli press but the great concern is that the blame will go down the chain of command, not up.

Indeed they give more daily, with military rabbis said to have given out printed messages to the soldiers telling them "God has brought them back to the promised land and they must wipe out those Palestinians who remain in order to give effect to God's work...." or some BS along those lines.

Its a familiar story to those who have watched this Israeli soap opera for past decades especially the past 8 years. Right now Israel would like another "patriot" with a criminal record (Benjamin Netanyahu) to be PM notwithstanding Frau Tzippi's recent blood-letting treat in Gaza but unless they can get USA on its knees in deep trouble especially in Middle East, desperate for a friend, president Obama is likely to be cool towards him. In fact, you must know by now, Israel too often works against US interests in oredr to realise its own unreasonable interests.  Wink

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T2K
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« Reply #12 on: 25 March 2009, 22:24:34 pm »

OK, maybe.  But I ask again - how many of its own has Hamas punished for the cold blooded murder of Israeli civilians which they have undeniably committed?  Or even, how much outrage and whistle blowing is going on from Hamas?

These are obviously rhetorical questions.  Given the obvious disparity, I know who's side I'm on.
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Dr. Phil
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« Reply #13 on: 25 March 2009, 23:14:32 pm »

OK, maybe.  But I ask again - how many of its own has Hamas punished for the cold blooded murder of Israeli civilians which they have undeniably committed?  Or even, how much outrage and whistle blowing is going on from Hamas?

These are obviously rhetorical questions.  Given the obvious disparity, I know who's side I'm on.

Yes, and it appears its not the side of justice and righteousness. You are perhaps an American Jew?
Note I did not say Jewish American.
Or is it that you are so young that your programming, ignorance of world events combines to obscure your vision and values?
Pre-emptive attacks, state-sponsored assassinations, holocaust, indiscrminate attacks on civilians, the illegal use of phosphorous against civilians....what would John Wayne say?  Huh

At this moment in time when a small number of US citizens (Americans and coincidentally Jewish) have conspired to pull off the greatest scam in history, plunging the USA into debt for generations. The bottom line of this bailout is that future generations of taxpayers lose big time, if there are any benefits from the bail out they go to the institutions which caused this melt-down and if there are losses they fall to the taxpayer.

This debacle may result in a USD dollar devaluation and collapse and that will send USA on a downward spiral as we saw with USSR. Personally I believe USA will always survive and prevail, I hope so, but when they embrace those who care so little for their welfare it is a concern.

We are talking about the Boys From Tel Aviv.

The crooks who dominate Wall Street, many of the Financial and Banking Institutions and indeed, existing senior positions in President Obama's White House including his Chief of Staff. And what about the chaitman of the FED, Benny, and the former chairman Al?
 
But Americans are conditioned.  Frankly I reel in horror every time I see an Israeli-sponsored American politician, even presidents pledge allegiance to Israel. This is treason? We'll have George Brown doing it next?  Grin

The focus is once again coming on Israel to negotiate a Palestinian state. Clearly their politicians conspire, swap chairs, their single-minded answer "Never!!" but we don't hear.  Angry
They are the chosen ones?  Grin The greatest story-tellers in history for sure.  Grin

In order to avoid this return of stolen land, Israel once again plans distractions for USA; more bad news for USA. From both within and without USA they will encourage instability inside Pakistan, Afghanistan and also Iraq which is far from being settled. The USA will be made to feel unconditionally dependent on Israel. This is George's legacy. We are already getting BS reports about a fundamentalist group inside Kashmir more dangerous than Al Qaeda. What utter tosh. More WMD? Old chestnuts?

For the world's vagrants, chaos rules.

Israel has deliberately derailed the presidents best efforts to repair the damage done by 8 years of a moron sidekick and and his satanic VP but Obama must not give up. If Pakistan wants shariah law let them have it. The big problem with US policy is that we send our boys and girls to fight and die in distant countries fighting alien religions and customs we consider barbaric, but our politicians at home make concession after concession to these same groups resident in our countries as "refugees" accepting the very same abberations in our homeland.  Huh
And we pride ourselves being the "least racist country in Europe".  Huh

Its called political correctness aka lacking moral fibre and poor leadership. Its all about holding on to power at any expense.

But the world will continue turning and you will eventually wise-up.  Wink

« Last Edit: 27 March 2009, 20:34:01 pm by Dr. Phil » Logged
T2K
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« Reply #14 on: 03 April 2009, 19:34:08 pm »

"You are perhaps an American Jew?
Note I did not say Jewish American."

Sorry for the delayed response but - wrong on the Jewish thing.  I'm an American Atheist, or Atheist American since it seems to matter for some reason.
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