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ExpatSingapore Message Board 27 May 2012, 21:32:56 pm *
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Author Topic: Piracy. The Reality  (Read 3736 times)
Dr. Phil
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« on: 10 April 2009, 21:57:48 pm »

Prior to the War in Iraq I was one of many who railed against the folly of such a cynical misadventure and today watching in disbelief at the most powerful naval forces pleading impotence when confronted with piracy off the Horn of Africa, blaming "Terms of Engagement" blaming a lack of stability in Somalia etc I cant help but sense deja vu or "here we go again".

I appreciate the US private security sector, Blackwater et al, is looking for new post-Iraq markets and the same unscrupulous US influences are stirring the pot.

We had an aeroplane land in the Hudson and that US feel-good factor is contageous (and a distraction from economic news) hence a US captain is now floating in a fibreglass lifeboat 300 miles offshore and the most powerful fleet on earth are converging on this avoidable scenario. Hello? A container vessel capable of +16 knots is one of the fastest merchant ships afloat and can outrun any pirate skip. But we all want our 3 minutes and this is a terrific advertisement for seaborne security; whoops the captain's "old man" happens to run such a company.  Grin

To suggest piracy can only be eradicated by an incursion into Somalia beggars belief. Somalia is a nation of pirates and they only become a problem when they leave the coastal water.

The smart strategy is to detect and destroy when offshore in open waters; on "our ground", not theirs.

Let us face a few harsh realities apparently incomprehensible to US and UN naval forces; a small boat 300 miles offshore with RPGs rather than nets ain't fishin'. Terms of Engagement which allow such vessels to proceed until it actualy attacks a vessel before intervention is allowed are the product of mischief-makers.

The current passive Terms of Reference followed by US and UN naval forces only encourage and incubate the virus of piracy. If US and UN forces have a hidden agenda they should step aside and let the PRC fleet clean this mess up before it gets out of hand.

I appreciate private security is a highly lucrative "sector" today and Iraq is closing its doors after years of abuse but we British have always prided ourselves on maintaining safe and open international waters. Lets keep the High Seas open and accessible to all.

Besides, so many merchant shipping companies have signed up for security already and whilst it is generating huge income and must be perpetuated by US gluttons, we know the cost will eventually fall on consumers of all goods shipped by sea (to avoid higher marine insurance premiums) and that is for sure.

Today aerial surveillance can detect all small craft departing the shores of Somalia before they leave the surf! Airborne Awacs over Iraq or Saudi Arabia have the range and capability for this and seaborne interceptors can destroy. There are so many UN (European) military "observers" in the region already!

Lets also remember illegal fishing off the coast of these poor nations can also be dealt with once and for all, preserving fish stocks for locals who will then have the income and can avoid piracy; and the removal of long line fisherman will do so much for the turtle and other marine communities.
 
« Last Edit: 10 April 2009, 23:16:22 pm by Dr. Phil » Logged
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« on: 10 April 2009, 21:57:48 pm »



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God himself
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« Reply #1 on: 11 April 2009, 0:40:28 am »

Stop being a wanker all your life.

If, say, as has happened, a Chinese ship is seized, what would you say is an appropriate response?
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"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." <B>—George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004 </B>
T2K
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« Reply #2 on: 11 April 2009, 10:46:04 am »

Phil - Are you saying that piracy off East Africa is a creation of the US gov't so US security companies can get some additional business?

I didn't see this post before I put up one about this (although more rational) in the Living in Singapore section.
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Dr. Phil
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« Reply #3 on: 11 April 2009, 14:32:23 pm »

Phil - Are you saying that piracy off East Africa is a creation of the US gov't so US security companies can get some additional business?

I didn't see this post before I put up one about this (although more rational) in the Living in Singapore section.

Well if I had known it would not have been "MOVED" to die quietly on other Members Only B o a r d s, I too would have posted there perhaps avoiding the odious little tic who posted prior to you.  Cheesy

Yes, its about business. This is also my business so I know what I am talking about.  Wink

The French did the correct thing and they will return the captured pirates to France to stand trial. Well done France.Now lets change the Terms of Engagement to give reputable naval forces something to do!

If US wants to attack Somalia, another Islamic country, it will fail again.
 
« Last Edit: 11 April 2009, 14:35:24 pm by Dr. Phil » Logged
Bagshot, Col
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« Reply #4 on: 11 April 2009, 20:45:13 pm »

I say Dr Phil dont be so cynical, what?
You appear to see commercial influences everywhere, from the invasion of Iraq, private security contracts.....
We are talking about the US Navy, sir!
And I understand USS "Haliburton" is now on the scene to deal with those damned pirates.  Grin
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God himself
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« Reply #5 on: 12 April 2009, 12:41:50 pm »


Yes, its about business. This is also my business so I know what I am talking about.  Wink

 

"It's the Jews, it's the Jews ...".
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"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." <B>—George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004 </B>
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« Reply #6 on: 12 April 2009, 13:38:01 pm »

Criminals will always exist and will be allowed to steal as much as society lets them get away with.  In Somalia, where anarchy more or less prevails, there are no checks on them.

So, the question is what will we do?  I can't believe Obama hasn't even commented on this.  If he isn't going to order serious action, he should at least communicate about the issue.

Having said that, I think the French approach is the correct one, though it did get one hostage killed in the process.  These pirates need to know that their force will be met with superior force.
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God himself
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« Reply #7 on: 12 April 2009, 16:57:00 pm »

I've spent a lot of time in Somalia and the only thing they respect is ruthless force.
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"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." <B>—George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004 </B>
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« Reply #8 on: 13 April 2009, 8:56:57 am »

Glad to see the USN applied the same tactics as the French, and without getting the hostage killed either.  Well done.  I think this is good for setting a precedent that the ransom game will not automatically be accepted.

The pirates can adapt and make their tactics more violent, but ultimately their whole existence is based on hostages and ransom.  It's not like the 18th century where pirates could actually attempt to go head to head against the Royal Navy or take ships and use them.
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TheWrathOfGrapes
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« Reply #9 on: 13 April 2009, 11:08:01 am »

Hello? A container vessel capable of +16 knots is one of the fastest merchant ships afloat and can outrun any pirate skip. 

Hello? A skip or sampan with a 250hp outboard motor have a cruising speed of 27 knots with 8 pirates on board, or a max speed of 30 knots.
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God himself
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« Reply #10 on: 13 April 2009, 11:57:12 am »

Glad to see the USN applied the same tactics as the French, and without getting the hostage killed either.  Well done.  I think this is good for setting a precedent that the ransom game will not automatically be accepted.

Pretty good shooting for snipers on the U.S. warship to be able to pick off the three pirates on a small lifeboat on a swell -- even if the distance wasn't that great, approx at a distance of 40 metres.
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"Our enemies are innovative and resourceful, and so are we. They never stop thinking about new ways to harm our country and our people, and neither do we." <B>—George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Aug. 5, 2004 </B>
Dr. Phil
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« Reply #11 on: 13 April 2009, 20:26:23 pm »

Hello? A container vessel capable of +16 knots is one of the fastest merchant ships afloat and can outrun any pirate skip. 

Hello? A skip or sampan with a 250hp outboard motor have a cruising speed of 27 knots with 8 pirates on board, or a max speed of 30 knots.


Hello, pirate skips dont do such speeds even on calm waters. Off Somalia now its good weather with seas under 1 metre.
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Dr. Phil
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« Reply #12 on: 13 April 2009, 20:29:24 pm »

Glad to see the USN applied the same tactics as the French, and without getting the hostage killed either.  Well done.  I think this is good for setting a precedent that the ransom game will not automatically be accepted.

Pretty good shooting for snipers on the U.S. warship to be able to pick off the three pirates on a small lifeboat on a swell -- even if the distance wasn't that great, approx at a distance of 40 metres.

Yes very good shooting considering the limited access to those inside the lifeboat.
So now lets change the Terms of Engagement, stop, board, search, confiscate weapons......
Special forces can even tag suspect fishing vessels in port and track them once at sea.
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TheWrathOfGrapes
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« Reply #13 on: 14 April 2009, 7:28:39 am »

Hello? A container vessel capable of +16 knots is one of the fastest merchant ships afloat and can outrun any pirate skip. 

Hello? A skip or sampan with a 250hp outboard motor have a cruising speed of 27 knots with 8 pirates on board, or a max speed of 30 knots.


Hello, pirate skips dont do such speeds even on calm waters. Off Somalia now its good weather with seas under 1 metre.


How about doing just under 20 knots - that should enable the pirate skip to overtake the commercial vessel.  We used to do 30 knots in those RNLI inflatables, pounding the waves in the Bristol Channel.

So, are you saying that there should not be any pirate attacks at all as those pirate skips are not able to keep up with the merchant ships? Only those that suffered engine breakdowns or those at anchor are susceptible to attacks?

Confucious, he says, rape impossible:
Man with trousers down cannot run faster than woman with skirt up.
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Dr. Phil
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« Reply #14 on: 14 April 2009, 22:43:52 pm »

Hello? A container vessel capable of +16 knots is one of the fastest merchant ships afloat and can outrun any pirate skip. 

Hello? A skip or sampan with a 250hp outboard motor have a cruising speed of 27 knots with 8 pirates on board, or a max speed of 30 knots.


Hello, pirate skips dont do such speeds even on calm waters. Off Somalia now its good weather with seas under 1 metre.


How about doing just under 20 knots - that should enable the pirate skip to overtake the commercial vessel.  We used to do 30 knots in those RNLI inflatables, pounding the waves in the Bristol Channel.

So, are you saying that there should not be any pirate attacks at all as those pirate skips are not able to keep up with the merchant ships? Only those that suffered engine breakdowns or those at anchor are susceptible to attacks?

Confucious, he says, rape impossible:
Man with trousers down cannot run faster than woman with skirt up.


Right now with seas under 1 metre the skips can move quickly but as the SW monsoon develops through May the wind waves and swell with increase which makes it difficult for such skips especially so far offshore.
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