Meet the new boss, same as the old boss

[Manc Man]

This week the US extradites a WWII German prison guard back to Europe to stand trial for his alleged crimes.

This week Obama assures CIA employees they won't be prosecuted for torturing prisoners because, after all, "they were just following orders"

 

[Dr. Phil]

And this week the President of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinajad spoke at an anti-rascism conference which was orchestrated to remind us all of the jewish holocaust but he, accurately and calmly described the +50 year holocaust the jews have committed against Palestine.

And there is still no state of Palestine...

And our leaders walked out in protest.....

[Manc Man]

Wow

That's so frustrating.

I really thought all the delegates would listen to that speech and then rush out and create a Palestinian State over lunch in the canteen.

How are you going to handle the disappointment?

[Old Mike]

The " Anti Racism" conference was never going to achieve anything except supply one more excuse for politicians to turn our tax dollars into hot air.

[working_mom]

And this week the President of Iran, Mahmoud Ahmadinajad spoke at an anti-rascism conference which was orchestrated to remind us all of the jewish holocaust but he, accurately and calmly described the +50 year holocaust the jews have committed against Palestine.

And there is still no state of Palestine...

And our leaders walked out in protest.....

Yeah, this from a person who has vowed to wipe an entire race from the face of the earth. Seriously, can you not quote someone else?

Just wondering why no one is speaking about the Tamil race being wiped off in Sri Lanka 

As OM said, another unnecessary wastage of tax payers money!!!!

[madcat23]

the tamil race IS NOT being wiped out. whats been wiped out are terrorists.

[T2K]

This week the US extradites a WWII German prison guard back to Europe to stand trial for his alleged crimes.

This week Obama assures CIA employees they won't be prosecuted for torturing prisoners because, after all, "they were just following orders"

 

See, it's stuff like this that makes me think sometimes that "the West" no longer has what it takes to win, or maybe even survive.

German WWII "Special" Camps, 1941-45: Starvation, disease, forced labor, mass murder

American "Special" Camp at Guantanamo Bay, Present: Three culturally sensitive and nutritionally balanced meals per day, 1st rate medical care, free time for religious studies / worship, "stressful" interrogations which caused no injuries

Yeah, they're comparable and making people uncomfortable is torture.   

That some people in the US, UK, etc actually think that the sentence above is fact and not idiocy is evidence of our decline from within.

My tie is torturing me right now!  Where's the UN?!

[Manc Man]

You think the Germans with their Death Camps were "winners"?

You think the Third Reich is the appropriate template to follow if we don't want to fall into the trap of being "losers"?

Really?

[T2K]

No, my statement is quite clear.  To reiterate though, I think the fact that a lot of people in "the West" are silly enough to equate Guantanamo Bay to Treblinka, thus metaphorically dragging ourselves down to the level of the Nazis, is ridiculous and sad.

There is a world of difference between the two OBVIOUSLY.  But, for those with a high level of self-loathing, there isn't.  And thus our decline.

[Old Mike]

whats been wiped out are terrorists.

Ah, the terrorists are being shot or the freedom fighters are being martyred.
It all depends on your point of view.

[Manc Man]

Perhaps you're being intentionally obtuse.

I don't see anyone on this thread equating Gitmo to Treblinka.

But laws are laws.

It is hypocrisy to accept the "but I was just following orders" excuse from your soldiers after ridiculing for 60 years absolutely the exact same excuse from others. And then hanging them.

[God himself]

Mahmoud Ahmadinajad is a selfish, stupid peasant. He really is. I interviewed him once and he was feral, but not academic.

As one of the few heads of state at the U.N. anti racist conference, he had the opportunity to say something sensible. He didn't. He has had plenty of opportunity to behave like a mature statesman, but he doesn't. Instead, he pandered to a domestic audience that will never even see what he did. His entire existence relies on an election next year.

Let's face it, regardless of how much you (internationally) may disapprove of Israeli policy, it is quite difficult to assume the moral high ground when you have just sentenced a young woman to an astonishingly long sentence for "spying".

[tweek]

Instead, he pandered to a domestic audience that will never even see what he did. His entire existence relies on an election next year.

But, come on, how real or valid is an election in Iran?? What real choice do any of the voters actually have? I have an Iranian friend who went back for a visit (for the first time in about 30 years) after Ahmadinajad was 'elected' the first time & she asked some of her family members why & how he was elected -- the answer was something along the lines of 'Do you really think anyone had a choice?'

[God himself]

It is genuinely contested.

[T2K]

Manc Man,

See, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Following orders is what soldiers are supposed to do.  But, there are some orders which are clearly wrong and thus unlawful.  A guard at a concentration camp being told to line up prisoners and shoot them vs a guard at Guantanamo being told to mentally stress prisoners (with no injuries) are two different things.  They should not be equated, they are black and white.

I can tell you from firsthand experience that the US Army clearly instructs all soldiers that illegal orders should not be obeyed.
One definition of an illegal order is an which is "in evident contradiction to all human morality and every international usage of warfare."

Nothing I've read that happens at Guantanamo or which was done by the CIA fits that category.