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Author Topic: The Claim That There Is No God Is An Escape From All Realities  (Read 13148 times)
Vulcanl
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« Reply #60 on: 05 September 2010, 12:25:31 pm »

T2K,

This is incomplete:

[Your logic is: The Universe exists, therefore it can only have been created by an all powerful being]

I think that what Old Mike was pointing out was merely that the logic you are using to rule out the existence of God is flawed (said logic being that science has already sufficiently explained away any need for belief in God).

We Christians believe that God sent his son to Earth to tell of the good news of his father's eternal Kingdom awaiting us after our life on Earth ends.  That is additional proof for believers. 

For me THE most important proof is that God is involved in my life on a daily basis, he guides and helps me constantly.

I think that I am more open-minded about this than you are.  You have (for some unknown reason) decided that you have gone 'far enough' in determining whether God exists or not.  I wonder what you are afraid of...it's not the end of the World, is it?  Wink
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« Reply #60 on: 05 September 2010, 12:25:31 pm »



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TheWrathOfGrapes
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« Reply #61 on: 05 September 2010, 14:13:28 pm »

No place for God?

By Thomas Lee

Professor Stephen William Hawking, the author of the 1988 runaway world best seller A Brief History of Time, has declared the dreadful finality that there is no place for God in theories on the creation of the Universe.

Britain’s most famous theoretical physicist and cosmologist had asserted previously that a belief in a creator was not inapposite with science, but in his latest book The Grand Design, he deduces that the so-called Big Bang was an ineluctable consequence of the laws of physics.

According to wire news reports this week, Hawking says in his new book, being serialized in The Times of London, that there is no need to invoke God to set the Universe going.

“Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something,” Hawking said in the book co-written by US physicist Leonard Mlodinow, challenging Sir Isaac Newton’s conviction that the Universe must have a designer or creator as it could not simply have emerged out of nothing and chaos.

Hawking, who calls himself as an agnostic, has often used the word “God” in metaphorical meanings to illustrate points made in his books and public speeches. In A Brief History of Time, he had appeared to accept the role of God in the creation of the Universe, saying “If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason — for then we should know the mind of God.”

Hawking’s latest theory on the origin of the Universe, if true or unilaterally accepted as truth, will have prevalent and repugnant implication, impact and influence in the ultimate value and morality of human beings as it renders the whole Universe and everything in it to merely a materialistic impersonal phantasm, resulting in non-authentic veritable moral chaos.

Hawking’s theory means that there is no morality as life is a merely meaningless materialistic mass – a body of matter with no definite distinctive significance and no perspicuous precious value. So, why have ethics and laws? Everyone should just go for the pursuit of pleasure, sensual self-indulgence, and do whatever he likes, including killing each other, since human life is merely a mass of matter that comes together by chance.

Obviously, Hawking’s theory is logically flawed as it does not answer the two fundamental supreme questions of the origin of the very well-designed Universe, and of the intrinsic inborn moral conscience of the human person.

Scientific theories, such as that of Charles Darwin’s theory of evolution which derives from natural observations of the universe and life, have never proven the non-existence of God. In fact, the very fact that there is a very well-designed and orderly Universe shows that there is a Designer with great wisdom and intelligence behind it. Screw and nuts and anything else just don’t come together by chance and become a computer. An intelligent designer and creator has to plan, design and make it.

There is this true story of a hardcore evolutionist called Dr Paul Gentuso who discovered the reality and relevance of God while attending a class on anatomy at medical school.

According to Gentuso, he dissected a human hand during one class session, first by removing the skin, then isolated the individual tendons and muscles, and work his way to the bones.

“The tendons of the hand are aligned in tendon sheaths, like self-lubricating pulleys, allowing the hand to move in a tireless, noiseless, almost effortless fashion. It was perfectly designed to carry out all the works it was called to do, everything from lifting a small object to lugging a tree truck,” Gentuso said.

The experience led Gentuso, who had serious doubts about the existence of God, to take an honest look at himself and at the marvelous and magnificent design of the human body with its stupendous functions.

“In seeing how each tendon was perfectly aligned along the axis of each finger and how each figure moved in a coordinated fashion when tugged by individual tendons, it became obvious to me that there was a Creator who had intelligently designed and created the human hand. This was the first time in my adult life that I could say with assurance that a creator existed. It was really a spiritual experience for me. I went from doubt to certainty based on seeing God’s creation,” Gentuso said.

In this age of incertitude and skepticism, the scientific community and the so-called intellectuals have attempted to dismiss and deny the reality and existence of God, but the more we explore the mysteries and marvels of our Universe and experience the astonishing and miraculous birth, growth and development of the human being, we cannot escape the wonderment of the evidence of the truth that God is.

If the human being is merely the result of a Big Bang lumping matter together by chance, as Stephen Hawkings postulated in his new book The Grand Design, then we are simply clods, with no meaning, no intrinsic essential value, no moral, and no purpose.

If the Universe was originated by chance, then the German philosopher Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche (1844-1900) was correct in declaring that God is dead, and was justified to launch his “Campaign against Morality”. Nietzsche, who called himself an “immoralist”, had harshly criticizes the prominent moral values of Christianity, and called the establishment of moral systems based on a dichotomy of good and evil a “calamitous error”.

If that is what we human beings and our Universe are all about, then nothing matters anymore. Let’s eat, drink and be merry, for life has no essential meaning and value.

Otherwise, we should pause, and reflect on the reality and truth of Who created us and what he wants us to be and to do.
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ReadMe
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« Reply #62 on: 06 February 2011, 21:20:27 pm »

Someone please provide me with just one (just one is enough) convincing proof of God, heaven or hell.
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Old Mike
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« Reply #63 on: 07 February 2011, 3:54:04 am »

The simplest proof is that there is no possiblilty of making a perpetual motion machine.
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so what
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« Reply #64 on: 07 February 2011, 21:36:58 pm »

OM,

Are you insinuating that the universe is a perpetual motion?
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« Reply #65 on: 07 February 2011, 21:38:14 pm »

Someone please provide me with just one (just one is enough) convincing proof of God, heaven or hell.

Interesting question.
Lets say I know God and can bring you to visit Him.
How would you want Him to prove to you that he is God?
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Old Mike
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« Reply #66 on: 08 February 2011, 4:28:58 am »

No. The universe is not perpetual motion.
It started at a point, the Big Bang and  will eventually run down.
The universe was created by something outside it, who created it from nothing. That something we call God. A perpetual motion machine creates energy from nothing.
Such machines do not exist. The day you can show me a perpetual motion machine I will cease to believe in God
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so what
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« Reply #67 on: 08 February 2011, 20:07:08 pm »

No. The universe is not perpetual motion.
It started at a point, the Big Bang and  will eventually run down.
The universe was created by something outside it, who created it from nothing. That something we call God. A perpetual motion machine creates energy from nothing.
Such machines do not exist. The day you can show me a perpetual motion machine I will cease to believe in God

Then I dont understand your request.
You want someone to show you something impossible, and then you will stop believing in God?
So the main reason for your believe in God is that noone has shown you something impossible yet.

But, the mere existance of God is a scientific impossibility because He is perpetual.
So the moment you accept there is a God, you can stop believing.
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$Pripps
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« Reply #68 on: 08 February 2011, 20:59:08 pm »

The simplest proof is that there is no possiblilty of making a perpetual motion machine.

What has the concept of perpetual motion machine to do with God?

Just as impossible?

Seems those two are unrelated, God has to do with faith, perpetual motion machine has to do with physics. The whole point with religion/God is that you have faith he/she/it exists, there is no proof needed - or so I am told.

If you need to start rationalize that God exists, then you are loosing faith.
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TheWrathOfGrapes
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« Reply #69 on: 08 February 2011, 21:44:29 pm »

No. The universe is not perpetual motion.
It started at a point, the Big Bang and  will eventually run down.

[1] The universe was created by something outside it, who created it from nothing. That something we call God. A perpetual motion machine creates energy from nothing.

Such machines do not exist.

[2] The day you can show me a perpetual motion machine I will cease to believe in God

Let's see what you are saying:

From [1], you are saying a perpetual motion machine is aka God.
From [2], you are saying if we show you God, you will cease to believe in God.

Do I read you correctly?
« Last Edit: 08 February 2011, 22:06:57 pm by TheWrathOfGrapes » Logged
so what
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« Reply #70 on: 08 February 2011, 23:46:42 pm »

OM,

Do you believe heaven is perpetual?
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« Reply #71 on: 08 February 2011, 23:58:25 pm »

Apparently perpetual motion has been found!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wvRzWYCZ2e0
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Vulcanl
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« Reply #72 on: 10 February 2011, 8:59:29 am »

Read Me,

"...Someone please provide me with just one (just one is enough) convincing proof of God..."

It cannot be denied that there is a baseline order in the Universe as evidenced by the  balance observed (light/dark, good/evil, male/female, etc) and certain recurring patterns in nature (see this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fibonacci_number). 

As a result of the above evidence, the creation of the Universe was NOT a random event so it HAD to be put into place by what we call GOD

"...heaven or hell..."

I don't think this is that important
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Old Mike
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« Reply #73 on: 10 November 2011, 1:52:35 am »

Heaven is perpetual.
It exists outside what we can presently observe.
It is possible to buy plans of a perpetual motion machine on the internet.
If anyone wants to send me US$ 75, I will send them a copy.

Flopecheege , I do not see what spongy boned Russians have to do with this discussion
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« Reply #74 on: 08 December 2011, 22:46:26 pm »

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相关的主题文章:
 
 
   "In many cases
 
   --------
 
   whether it be at Guantanamo or elsewhere
 
 
Judge Michael Pastor told the court that while Murray was legally eligible for probation, he did not think his actions showed he was suitable.
He said the evidence in the case showed a "continuous pattern of lies and deceit" by the disgraced physician.
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...that made more sense than some of the nonsense written in this thread.
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