any comment about SJI International Elementary School?

[expaty local]

both my kids are supposedly gifted (first disocovered @ random standard state-school tests = abroad).
re-affirmed by renowned child psychologist - Weschler

firsthand experience --- being gifted --- it's NOT really a good thing. i keep hearing from classmates (Western) and locals at home how "lucky" i am.
try living with these kids (and being exposed to their peers in the gifted programmes) and you will see how fun it is.

better to be 'normal' and above-average intelligent.
good enough. life and parenting is much easier.

what is important really is drive and EQ (which many Singaporeans lack).
packaging (again. something too contrived and stilted sometimes when it comes from Singaporeans) and versatile-creative ability to bullshit/spin (very important).

[Happens Everywhere]

There are parents with high expectations in every first world country. The wealthier the parents, the better the university they expect their children to attend. It's a very upper middle class thing.

[bogus]

"Oh, come on! Are you honestly trying to say that all the Singaporeans you know genuinely expect their kids to go to one of the world's best universities?"

They don't 'expect' their kids to go to top universities so much as they want to put their kids in the best position to do so. And those kids are probably going to be better positioned attending one of the top 30-40 local schools here than they would going to any of the international schools except for perhaps SAS and UWC.

[not true at all]

I'm married to a local. His family are very well-heeled, you might say. My husband was educated at boarding school and university in the UK. My husband and his family, and our many local friends, would hugely prefer their kids/grandkids to go to a local university. Of course, wouldn't we all like to think our kids could attend Harvard etc, but as for people who keep their kids in local schools as better prep for this? Well, you previous posters are kidding no one but yourself there...

Also, there are many well-connected families who do not want their children in the local school system. I think we all can think of examples without me dropping names. Again, you aren't kidding anyone with these remarks either...

[dumping grounds?]

The following is a clip from the Straits Times openly discussing some parents preferences for not having their kids in local schools:

International arms run by the brand-name schools here are now hot among local and foreign parents seeking for their children, among other things, smaller classes of about 25 students each.

Between 50 per cent and 70 per cent of the students at these schools are Singaporean, their parents unfazed by the higher fees - about $20,000 a student each year.

For marketing supervisor Carol Wong, 55, choosing ACS International for her son Joshua paid off.

Though he did well enough after Primary Six to get into St Andrew's Secondary School, she put him in ACS International, attracted by its smaller classes and departure from the mainstream curriculum.

It also states later in the article that the Singapore government allowed opening these international arms of top local institutes in 2005 to attract expats coming to Singapore as well as offering local parents more options.

These international sections are very selective, nothing like dumping grounds for academic failures with rich parents! 

[kitty kat]

Yep 

I know lots of bright sg kids in international schools.

[Teacher issues?]

To those of you who replied about an issue with one or more of the elementary teachers - Prep 1 and possibly a Prep 2 teacher.

Can you be any more specific about the conerns that were raised?

I have one child down for Prep 1 and another down for Prep 2 next year (earlier hopefully...). I don't expect any names to be given, more I am concerned with the nature of the issues. Was a teacher/s insulting or condescending to a child, were there concerns about the childrens safety with that teacher/s etc? Without knowing what the problem is I'm afraid my mind is running off with all sorts of nasty possibilities... I could ask the school but I am not sure how much information I would receive.

Thank you.

[to pp]

Do you know what number you are on the waiting list for prep 2? I'm apparently number 10 and am told their may be a place in Jan if I'm lucky. Would be interesting to know what you've been told. Bit of a gamble!

[Not nasty]

The issues were enough for parents to complain and the school to try to fix. One of the teachers had some personal issues that meant she was quite grumpy with the kids. Parents raised this during recent Parent teacher interviews and I believe has improved.

The other teacher seemed to have a bit of trouble communicating with parents well. She also seemed to have favourites and made stupid mistakes on school reports, spelt a child’s name wrong consistently etc. Another teacher mentored her and I have not heard complaints this year. (Although another poster above said, he/she had)I have a good friend with a daughter in her class this year and she has been happy. Her daughter is enthusiastic about school.

From my persepctive the school appear to be addressing any issues as they come up. We have been very happy so far. (Prep one!)

[Teacher issues?]

Not nasty: Thank you, it helps to know exactly what the problems were/are.

to pp: I'm still waiting to find out where they are on the list. I believe that the Prep 1 place is fine (that's August 2011) but they won't give me an exact answer until they have processed the applications (I only recently applied). I was given the impression, if somewhat vaguely, that my Prep 2 would probably make it in before August of next year though. "Possibly" from January. At the moment I'm trying not to think too hard about it, I can't believe how stressful applying for pre-schools has been! At this rate I'll be completely grey by years' end :-(

[imacparent]

While there certainly are local parents who would prefer their kids to attend an international school, they are in the minority. I socialize with many professional Singaporeans and I have never heard anything but subtle to not-so-subtle derision for the international schools.

The fact is the best path into Harvard, Oxbridge, Stanford and the rest of the top Unis is through the top local schools here, not the international schools.

bogus, I have the same experience as you.

Just yesterday, my tally of personal friends who sent a child to SJ international increased to 3.  All three kids started in (different) local "branded" schools based on their parents being alumni.  The common thread seems to be that they did not do well enough to go to a branded high school.  The parents are top tier earners, ie. bankers, doctors.  Sometimes I think the kids could still go to an average local school and bloom later.  But it seems that international school route is the escapist's choice in the name of "holistic" education - when $20+k/year is not a painful price to pay for your pay bracket.

[Transition]

Interesting thread.

We have one at SJII. School is about a 6 out of 10. The overall quality is on par with a middle class school in the US, though without the bottom end of the distribution. It is a decent school--I would think it is fine were it not for the fees, which are of course outrageous for a rather pedestrian school. The work they assign is not very impressive: science is weak. Maths is overrated. The extracurriculars are OK, though the sports lack competition.Ratio is about 4-6:1 Singaporean. While 50-50 may be a goal, I certainly do not see it.

As for local-international, that is a big can of worms. Having lived here for a decade plus  with four kids, one has to realize that the biggest differences one sees are with the purpose of education and with nature of feedback within the schooling community. They explain nearly all the differences we see. And it is important to note these differences at SJII since they explain the difference between the primary and secondary school.

Purpose: Local schools are designed to identify the "best" students, where "best" is narrowly defined around academic examinations. Once a student is filtered out at the PSLE level, making it back to an elite school is very difficult. Yet what is best is rarely matched by any truly intellectual character or critical thinking.

The schools themselves follow Orwell's observation from Animal Farm: all are equal, with some more equal than others. The top schools get much better teachers, resources, and networking. Some locals I know protest at this idea. My reply: then take your kid out Raffles and put him/her in a neighborhood school. Silence.

The focus is on exam prep across a broad selection of study. Why? Admissions are based on exams and the more A's the better. The result of this mindset is students who seem unable to grasp abstract thinking or to engage in critical discourse. The few that can are remarkable, yet sad. They need to go overseas to reach their potential--not here. Most would have been better off working at 16.

While local students likely test better, their test scores are not matched by the desirability by firms trying to hire top talent. The issue is not just their inability to articulate (which is often atrocious--and I mean behind the accent), but the lack of awareness in engaging in complex out-of-box scenarios.

Purpose of International Schools: to serve the client. Problem: with a shortage of schools and with parents on packages, the net effect is to treat the parent as highly substitutable cash cows. I am not particularly enamored by the international schools, either. Yet, there is more holism and less focus on rote and test prep.

The international schools create a kind of pampered product even amongst families that are middle class. Call it the expatriate effect. For US$15-$20K a year, your child would be at some of the best schools in the US either directly with that tuition or via rent add-ons that would enable your child to enroll in an expensive neighborhood school.

So in this world of mediocre options, SJII is decent.

Nature of Feedback: Local schools: there is none. This is Singapore. Everything provided by MOE is world class and perfect by assumption. There is a national delusion in place that Singapore is cosmopolitan and her education world class. No and No. Singapore is a facade: the cosmopolitan is in the international community of which there are of course Singaporeans. Most locals know little of the world outside of Singapore. Edcuation is not world class: Not even close. The pressure cooker will of course pop out the occasional gem. But at what cost?

International Schools: feedback is OK and should be better. Again, this is due to a shortage of schools. More smiles and just as little effort to make necessary changes.Yet, there is far more dialogue.


Again, in this world of mediocre options, SJII is decent.

For those of us who have attended Ivy leagues (or similar caliber) universties and who went to excellent public\private schools, most have been disappointed by Singapore. So in the end, it is really an expensive choice of mediocres vs. the opportunity cost of homeschooling. In this choice, SJII is OK, with our lives being too busy for homeschooling.

[scorn]

"Edcuation is not world class: Not even close. The pressure cooker will of course pop out the occasional gem. But at what cost?"

This is just silly. Singaporean kids test very highly in international assessments, not just local ones, and Oxbridge and Ivy are heavily represented by products of local schools. In the UK alone, there are about 200 Singaporeans at Cambridge, 150 at Oxford and 300 at Imperial College.

Not world class? Singapore is only the size of a small city in most countries yet it has about 650 of its students at the UK's top schools.

I agree that the emphasis on rote has led to a failure of critical thinking in many respects, and I don't think this can be rectified easily. But I also think Singapore doesn't have the luxury of larger nations in having its students breeze along through the school years, sacrificing many kids to failure with a happy clappy education in order to allow a genius or two to flower. They need all their kids mastering the basics and emerging with a strong work ethic because there is no easy ride for the Singaporean economy and never will be.

[famous for Maths]

Singapore is well-known for the Maths programme they use and several countries, in particular the US have taken to use it in their schools. A recent report I read (thought I had bookmarked it, but obviously didn't) found , however, that in other countries the Singapore programme was nowhere near as successful as it is here and the reason given for that : it needs heavy involvement and support from parents. This is often not available to children using that system abroad for a variety of reasons.

[expaty local]

To pp:

It is true.


I was exploring the option of home-schooling some years ago, having become gradually disillusioned by the 'touch and go, luck-of-the-draw' teachers and education my children got each year (public schools, North America)

To my surprise, I found out the official texts the American homeschoolers were using are Singapore's Math and Science. Since then, I have gradually found out the Math and Science standards of Singapore rank up there globally, and are quite highly respected in educational circles.

Another time, I had signed my kid up advanced enrichment classes run by the local (state) university's senior Math and Science professors (Cdn).
Upon learning I originate from Singapore ... they proudly brandished their texts of choice - Singapore's!