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Author Topic: Asian Decoupling is here and I told you So  (Read 32901 times)
Vulcanl
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« on: 25 June 2009, 8:12:05 am »

New York Times
Developing World Seen as Engine for Recovery
 
By NELSON D. SCHWARTZ and MATTHEW SALTMARSH
Published: June 24, 2009

PARIS — After bruising global downturns, the American economy has usually led the world back to growth, but developing countries could be the engine that powers the next recovery.

Despite fears just months ago that they would be among the biggest victims of the financial crisis, emerging giants like China, India and Brazil are set to rebound strongly next year, the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development predicted Wednesday — as Europe, the United States and Japan lag.

“It’s good to have a locomotive out there pulling the train,” Ángel Gurría, the O.E.C.D.’s secretary general said, referring to China, India and Brazil. “But we can’t put the onus on their shoulders — they help, but they can’t get us out of the hole.”

The divergence between the emerging and the developed countries suggests that the once-popular theory of decoupling — the notion that the emerging markets could be moving independently of the developed economies — may make a comeback.

When the emerging markets were also brought low by the global financial crisis, the theory was abandoned for talk of “recoupling.”

Now, is “re-decoupling” at hand?

Mr. Gurría argues that the net result of faster emerging market growth would be “absolutely positive,” but he acknowledges that one early side effect is already evident in the form of surging oil prices, which have risen from $33 a barrel in February to nearly $70 now.

“Why is oil doubling when we are in the deepest recession ever?” Mr. Gurría asked.

Decoupling is back as a thesis,” said Adam Posen, deputy director of the Peterson Institute for International Economics in Washington. “And we should recognize how different the current situation is from past crises.”

Striking a somewhat optimistic note, the O.E.C.D. said that thanks to stimulus programs in the United States and elsewhere, the downturn appears to be nearing bottom. However, it also warned that the recovery is likely to be fragile, with unemployment growing and unused production capacity remaining for years.

And increased savings by American corporations and consumers could partly offset the stimulus, tamping down growth in the United States and around the world.

Economists have furiously debated whether decoupling was taking place. It would mean a fundamental shift in the global economy — that traditionally dependent developing economies move according to their own fundamental trends rather than the ups and downs of the developed countries. Increasing independence could lead to increasing influence and a relative shift in global economic weight toward the emerging giants, especially China.

The 30 industrialized members of the Paris-based policy and research group account for roughly 60 percent of global economic output.

I think it’s clear that the situation in emerging economies has changed if you compare it with where we were fifteen years ago,” said Jorgen Elmeskov, acting head of the O.E.C.D’s economics department.

According to the O.E.C.D.’s semi-annual report, China could grow 7.7 percent this year and 9.3 percent next year, faster than previous estimates. India could grow 5.9 percent this year and 7.2 percent next year, and Brazil’s economy, after slowing down will reverse this year and expand 4 percent next year.

The O.E.C.D predicted the United States economy would shrink by 2.8 percent this year and grow by 0.9 percent next year, a bit better than the flat performance the organization estimated in March.

By contrast, the Japanese economy is expected to shrink 6.8 percent this year while Europe should contract 4.8 percent in 2009, with both regions hit harder than in earlier O.E.C.D forecasts.

The decoupling hypothesis has had nearly as many ups and downs as the global economy itself.

As the post World War II economy recovered and globalization took hold, economists detected a pattern in which a slowdown in the developed world led to an effect that made conditions far worse in poorer countries, said Mr. Posen.

But by 2007 and 2008, he explained, decoupling was gaining currency as the United States’s economy slowed but Brazil, Russia, India and China continued to grow. When those countries then hit the wall late last year, it seemed like the decoupling thesis was also dead.

Now, he said, with China and other emerging countries seemingly leading the way, the idea, which suggests that countries like China, India and Brazil are going to play a far bigger role in global economic expansion, is coming back into vogue.

If decoupling were a reality, it could be good for the developed countries, as growing wealth in China and India could, in theory, increase demand for goods made in recession-battered countries like Japan, Germany and the United States. (China and India might require import-oriented consumer economies for that to happen, which is not currently the case.)

On the negative side of the ledger, emerging market-centered growth could spur higher interest rates in the West and Japan, and push up prices for oil and other commodities when the developed world could least afford it.

Another potential downside of decoupling could be a tsunami of capital spilling out of developed markets into emerging economies, potentially creating a bubble, said Simon Johnson, a former chief economist for the International Monetary Fund who is now a professor at the Sloan School of Management at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology.

That boom-and-bust pattern has a long history, he said, including in the 1970s, when petrodollars recycled by American banks created a bubble in Latin America.

Today’s rising crude prices could eventually help revive another emerging giant, who still ailing, Russia, but they could prove to be an especially painful blow for the euro-zone economy, which the O.E.C.D. predicts will continue to shrink for the rest of 2009 before barely growing in the first half of 2010.

Economic performance will be “very patchy in Europe,” Mr. Gurría said, with unemployment projected to reach 12.3 percent for the region by the end of 2010, compared with 10.1 percent in the United States and 5.8 percent in Japan.

In the meantime, the prolonged slowdown on the Continent, especially in Germany, is spurring locally-based giants like Siemens to look to the emerging markets for growth.

Siemens, a diversified manufacturer, already derives about a third of its nearly 80 billion euros in revenue, about $111 billion, from emerging markets — with 9 billion euros, or $12.6 billion, coming from Brazil, India and China alone.
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ExpatSingapore Message Board
« on: 25 June 2009, 8:12:05 am »



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Splat
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« Reply #1 on: 25 June 2009, 8:32:31 am »

Sounds like good news for your theory Vulcan.  Smiley  But where is Singapore in this?
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Vulcanl
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« Reply #2 on: 25 June 2009, 9:28:55 am »

Thank You, Splat.  Re: Singapore, I think that the recent runup in local stock and real estate prices the past few months could be a direct result of the mentioned capital flows out of developing and into emerging economies. 

Singapore is in a win-win situation here.  It is a small, very open economy that can shift its focus relatively quickly to service regional markets.  I recently visited Vietnam and was struck by the number of Singapore brands I saw there (Tiger, Comfort Cab, UOB, other real estate related names, etc).  I imagine Singapore is making similar inroads in other ASEAN countries like Cambodia, Thailand, Myanmar, etc.  Some Westerners refuse to acknowledge that Singapore's experience in building a successful economy is valuable to its neighbors. 

I think that tourism-related undertakings like F1 and the IRs will be successful and the gov't will continue to pursue more opportunities.  Medical services and other high-value added industries will continue to be developed. 

The SG gov't has managed this crisis well.  Singapore will continue to do well in the coming years. 

 
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LAME
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« Reply #3 on: 25 June 2009, 22:53:50 pm »

Thank You, Splat.  Re: Singapore, I think that the recent runup in local stock and real estate prices the past few months could be a direct result of the mentioned capital flows out of developing and into emerging economies. 

Singapore is in a win-win situation here.  It is a small, very open economy that can shift its focus relatively quickly to service regional markets.  I recently visited Vietnam and was struck by the number of Singapore brands I saw there (Tiger, Comfort Cab, UOB, other real estate related names, etc).  I imagine Singapore is making similar inroads in other ASEAN countries like Cambodia, Thailand, Myanmar, etc.  Some Westerners refuse to acknowledge that Singapore's experience in building a successful economy is valuable to its neighbors. 

I think that tourism-related undertakings like F1 and the IRs will be successful and the gov't will continue to pursue more opportunities.  Medical services and other high-value added industries will continue to be developed. 

The SG gov't has managed this crisis well.  Singapore will continue to do well in the coming years. 

 

Self denial.
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Vulcanl
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« Reply #4 on: 25 June 2009, 23:03:25 pm »

"...Self denial..."

On the part of certain Westerners, YES!  absolutely!
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Just2
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« Reply #5 on: 26 June 2009, 1:18:46 am »

Ignore the Village idiot he will go away

BoardAdmin4:
I don't think that is very constructive, do you?
« Last Edit: 22 November 2009, 13:13:09 pm by BoardAdmin4 » Logged
Vulcanizing
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« Reply #6 on: 26 June 2009, 1:53:26 am »

Go on and tell us vulchan  - how your HDB will make you "rich". Don't forget to tell us that your spose is from singapore and how you have adopted fung sway in your HDB to increase the flow of money. Tell us again and again how you hate the US. Here is my take-- Please do us all a favor and give up your US citizenship and take up singapore citizenship. Decouple this!!
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decoupling passports
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« Reply #7 on: 26 June 2009, 2:47:47 am »

Go on and tell us vulchan  - how your HDB will make you "rich". Don't forget to tell us that your spose is from singapore and how you have adopted fung sway in your HDB to increase the flow of money. Tell us again and again how you hate the US. Here is my take-- Please do us all a favor and give up your US citizenship and take up singapore citizenship. Decouple this!!

i know a lot of people in the process of giving up their US citizenship as well as declining their green card approvals.  They don't like their prospects for global taxation, and definitely don't want to be paying ever-increasing US taxes while living and working abroad.
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Vulcanl
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« Reply #8 on: 26 June 2009, 7:55:45 am »

SGD Bear,

Welcome back to the forum!  We have missed you.  I note from the time stamps that you are now back in the States.  I hope you have found work suited to your strengths. 

I for one am having a great time here!  There is lots to do and many opportunities.  You are welcome to stay at my HDB flat anytime to visit.  Just give me ample time to prepare.

With Love,

Vulcan 
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madcat23
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« Reply #9 on: 26 June 2009, 9:13:02 am »

no decency on this board..  Roll Eyes

IMO the only person who deserves to be told off like this is JBA
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you forgot
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« Reply #10 on: 26 June 2009, 9:41:26 am »

no decency on this board..  Roll Eyes

IMO the only person who deserves to be told off like this is JBA

You forgot about CTroll. 
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BRIC
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« Reply #11 on: 26 June 2009, 12:07:45 pm »

Yes - let’s believe the New York Times, you really are a one eyed crtic aren't you Vulcan? I think that paper has lost all of its credibility, no wonder they are perpetually on the brink of bankruptcy.

That said - most of my mutual funds are geared towards global emerging markets, not just Asia but Eastern Europe & South America.

I also invest heavily in resource funds.

But when the time is right I’ll be jacking it in for a costal town on the eastern seaboard of Australia and forget all this 6,000 people per square mile nonsense that is much of Asia. Why you would want to live here long term stumps me.
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Ninja
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« Reply #12 on: 26 June 2009, 14:49:09 pm »

I think a few people here would be surprised to find that developing Asia will not be swept away so easily. A bit bruised maybe. Done for, no.
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Ninja
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« Reply #13 on: 26 June 2009, 14:51:32 pm »

Yes - let’s believe the New York Times, you really are a one eyed crtic aren't you Vulcan? I think that paper has lost all of its credibility, no wonder they are perpetually on the brink of bankruptcy.

That said - most of my mutual funds are geared towards global emerging markets, not just Asia but Eastern Europe & South America.

I also invest heavily in resource funds.

But when the time is right I’ll be jacking it in for a costal town on the eastern seaboard of Australia and forget all this 6,000 people per square mile nonsense that is much of Asia. Why you would want to live here long term stumps me.


High cost of living is one reason. High taxes another. I'm in Oz and looking to build a retirement paradise for myself in Asia. There ya go.
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Dr. Phil
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« Reply #14 on: 26 June 2009, 15:26:42 pm »

BRIC is not the locomotive pulling the rest of the world out of recession.

BRIC simply represents four countries in which investment funds (mostly US funds) are being used for manufacturing under Joint Ventures, taking full advantage of sweat shop labour, no antipollution regulations, no quality controls, no taxes, no employee health care contributions or benefits, no welfare contributions..... whilst allowing them to cash-in on huge profits available because US and EU governments have sold out their respective electorates by signing Free Trade Agreements which allows these toxic products to be sold in our markets for top dollar with a net loss of jobs.

And we, the taxpayers have unwittingly contributed by bailing out banks who have put huge resources into these black holes. Let's not mention GM et al who have huge investments overseas and want to export cars and other goods into US and EU, once the domestic manufacturing has been killed off.

BRIC can't de-couple because those countries and investors need the markets of developed economies and the compliance of governments willing to put corporations first, above citizens' welfare and allow such abuses.
« Last Edit: 26 June 2009, 15:34:12 pm by Dr. Phil » Logged
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