Sad before Wedding

[singgal]

You come across as being out of touch with your Chinese roots.

To Chinese parents, showing respect and being a good daughter means contributing every month, not once a year. Dosent't have to be a huge amount. It's more the case of them being able to boast about having raised a filial daughter to friends and relatives. It's a testament to their parenting skills.

Being Chinese, they also do not perceive receiving gifts as being equal to receiving cold hard cash. Next time dont bother with presents and just distribute the red packets.

[Asian vs Western]

I don't like how you compare your family to your fiance's.  It seems to me that you think Western ways are "better".

About the parent's paying their own way, doesn't that strike you as a little bit cold and impersonal?  I don't see a negative for paying for your parents, after all didn't they pay for a lot your things growing up?  They're not strangers, they're your parents.

I've straddled both Western and Asian culture my whole life and I hope you are not falling into the trap of thinking that everything Western is great and the Asian ways are old fashioned and backward.

[_pripps]

I don't like how you compare your family to your fiance's.  It seems to me that you think Western ways are "better".

Well Western ways seem less complicate that's for sure. Why do children have a 'debt' to pay? Did we ask to be born? I thought something called love should define the relationship - not $$$

I think one of things that is most difficult to understand for a Westerner is all this "face" thing.  Seems it makes things unnecessary complicated.

[Berty]

Didnt know what filial was so looked it up on Wiki... very interesting nothing about monthly stipends etc etc that some posters have been saying are essential to this concept

"In somewhat general terms, filial piety means to be good to one's parents; to take care of one's parents; to engage in good conduct not just towards parents but also outside the home so as to bring a good name to one's parents and ancestors; to perform the duties of one's job well so as to obtain the material means to support parents as well as carry out sacrifices to the ancestors; not be rebellious; show love, respect and support;display courtesy; ensure male heirs, uphold fraternity among brothers; wisely advise one's parents, including dissuading them from moral unrighteousness; display sorrow for their sickness and death; and carry out sacrifices after their death."

Just as in the west and east we are all taking the so called cultural beliefs and twisting them for what we need.....

[T2K]

I've lived in SG quite a while and understand the situation yet I must thank 'SG Chinese' for his post, pretty informative view on the subject.

To the OP - you're in the middle here.  There is no real solution except accepting that there is no real solution, in my opinion.

The "Western" view (particularly the Northern Euro / Anglo one) is going to come back to the fact that parents should love their kids, raise them to be independent and then be happy for their achievements without wanting to be a burden on the kids, just like their parents did for them.

The "Chinese" view (the Singaporean one, to be specific) is going to come back to the filial piety thing, which inevitably translates to money and face.  They have relative and friends with kids that WILL be comparing how filial their kids are (ie how much money they get from the kids).  You marrying an ang moh doesn't release them from that little competition, but it sounds like you are not inclined to help them win it either.

So, what to do?  Just say "Fxxx it, who cares what they think" or start doling out the monthly allowance?  Good luck.

[The West is best]

I've lived in SG quite a while and understand the situation yet I must thank 'SG Chinese' for his post, pretty informative view on the subject.

To the OP - you're in the middle here.  There is no real solution except accepting that there is no real solution, in my opinion.

The "Western" view (particularly the Northern Euro / Anglo one) is going to come back to the fact that parents should love their kids, raise them to be independent and then be happy for their achievements without wanting to be a burden on the kids, just like their parents did for them.

The "Chinese" view (the Singaporean one, to be specific) is going to come back to the filial piety thing, which inevitably translates to money and face.  They have relative and friends with kids that WILL be comparing how filial their kids are (ie how much money they get from the kids).  You marrying an ang moh doesn't release them from that little competition, but it sounds like you are not inclined to help them win it either.

So, what to do?  Just say "Fxxx it, who cares what they think" or start doling out the monthly allowance?  Good luck.

Yes just ask an Asian person what they think about "nursing homes", the great place to chuck your parents so they're not a burden on you.  Bound to spark a spirited debate 

[To Porky]

Parents decide to have children, not the other way around. Your mother knew what costs would be involved. Having children isn't an 'investment' that they can then tap up when they get older.
Just another case of the typical money money money attitude of people around here. Can't just be happy for her daughter, no has to refer to the bank balance as the most important issue and use 'culture' as an excuse to get a free handout.

Cold cold people. No wonder they all look so miserable.

You are totally clueless. Try to open those little piggy eyes and actually read what has been written in earlier posts.

As a general rule, Chinese parents don't see having kids as an "investment". What they look for from their children is respect and appreciation for all the sacrifices that have been made for the children. Chinese folks don't do the kissy-huggy-I-love-you stuff.The giving of money is a gesture of that respect and appreciation.  If the children are in financial difficulties, the parents will know and understand that and will make sure that that money is returned. Don't diss what you don't understand.

[TypicalChinese]

If you can't afford a wedding, don't have one. Are you inviting your parents and saying if they can't afford to come, don't?

Some one said about their parents and their wedding, They're invited, if they want to come they very well can make their own way. (from 1/2 way around the world!) In case they get lost, I'll just give them a map, they're grown ups.

Horrid, I wouldn't treat my guest that way, much less my parents.

To Porky, cost involved in having children shouldn't include having to pay for travel to attend their fancy wedding when they're all grown up.

To OP, uninvite some guest so you have enough to pay for your parents to attend. Unless, having your mates there and face is more important than your parents!!

[acting like one]

I am upset of course with her implying that I was an ungrateful daughter but I'd like to find out whether I have broken a tradition or failed an obligation - and whether this would apply in a Western as well as an Eastern culture.

I hope your mum is not just implying.  You ARE ungrateful. Period.

[Filial piety]

Didnt know what filial was so looked it up on Wiki... very interesting nothing about monthly stipends etc etc that some posters have been saying are essential to this concept

"In somewhat general terms, filial piety means to be good to one's parents; to take care of one's parents; to engage in good conduct not just towards parents but also outside the home so as to bring a good name to one's parents and ancestors; to perform the duties of one's job well so as to obtain the material means to support parents as well as carry out sacrifices to the ancestors; not be rebellious; show love, respect and support;display courtesy; ensure male heirs, uphold fraternity among brothers; wisely advise one's parents, including dissuading them from moral unrighteousness; display sorrow for their sickness and death; and carry out sacrifices after their death."

Supporting parents is a very important part of filial piety. Having lost touch with her culture, OP fails to understand this.

It's ok if westerners don't understand aspects of Chinese culture. What's NOT ok is to criticise what they don't understand. Westerners may think it cold that Chinese parents have expectations on their grown children; the Chinese think it cold that it's considered ok in much of the western world for parents to expect their children to move out at 18 or 21 or whatever  age it is that western parents think is the limit of their parental care.

If you're a westerner coming to live in an Asian society, show some respect for Asian culture. you would expect no less of any Asian living in your society.

[SG Chinese]

I am all in favour of respect and filial piety; but also have a Westernised outlook on some issues.

Asia:
It's true some Chinese parents have kind of an 'investment' attitude to parenting.
If A doesn't work out, hey I still have C, D, E , F, G, H to depend on in my old age.
Nevermind the parents didn't really provide for them properly (how could they with so many kids and limited resources) or were selfish about keeping the best for themselves and doling out only leftovers to the kids to share?

On the flip side however, there're also those Asian parents who would sell family home and car plus throw in all retirement savings to make sure their kids get the best education all the way to Phd if Harvard and Oxford wave their invite letters.
And make sure their kids do not have to worry about anything else which focusing on their studies.
And on the contrary, instead of breeding little princesses, they inculcate grateful kids who can see and appreciate those sacrifices. At the end of the day, it really depends on the kid (and individuality personality - you get the gratefuls, and you get the ingrates)

Something average-Joe Western parents don't really do.
Yo dude you're 18, you jolly well get a government student loan. And move out and work for your own keep at university. Heck, I showered love food and care on you all of 18 years. Now it's time for me. It's all about independence.
Nevermind their kid will be in instant debt once they graduate.  In the meantime, we're off in our mobile home to see the world, or to cruise the Caribbean and Mexico.
Is there any wonder some of these kids don't feel any concept of filial piety? It's easy enough to send cards to do other touchy feely things superifically. Or get kids to draw cards.

It's not about little princesses or whatever. Imo, you kind of reap what you sow. If parents were selfish or looked after their own needs .... they also breed this "I look out for myself atittude" later sometimes.

[Mr Porky]

Just imagine having a financial 'debt' to your parents just for being their child. Incredible. Can you think of anything more shameful than asking your own children for money. Didnt these people make a success of their own lives? Are they not ashamed to ask for handouts?

The OPs mother is bordering on the obsessive. I cant believe people base their relationships with their own children on how much money they can squeeze out of them. Shameful.

Values indeed. Its just taking advantage of your kids to get their money. Parents should support their children and then their children should support their children. Being in your 30s and having to support your children AND your parents  (especially when they dont need your money) is a ridiculous and unneccessary hardship.

Selfishness through and through. I dont envy anyone born into that nightmare of demands and selfishness from your own parents!!!!

[2 sides]

Given that more than one culture is involved here, how much respect are the OPs parents giving to the western (say British) tradition that it is the parents of the bride who pay for the entire wedding.

I have actual experience of this when my Singapore Chinese father in law (with whom I have an excellent relationship) initially decided that there would be 150 of his business associates at our wedding plus every relative you could possibly unearth.  We wanted a small discrete wedding and when we initially said this we were reminded of Chinese culture, respect etc.  At this point my good wife asked what part of the groom was Chinese and was he aware of the British tradition that the brides father pays.

At this point, reality dawned, and it wasn't about cash, filial piety etc but rather that that it was a mix of 2 different cultures, both of which need to be accepted

[Mr Porky]

Given that more than one culture is involved here, how much respect are the OPs parents giving to the western (say British) tradition that it is the parents of the bride who pay for the entire wedding.

I have actual experience of this when my Singapore Chinese father in law (with whom I have an excellent relationship) initially decided that there would be 150 of his business associates at our wedding plus every relative you could possibly unearth.  We wanted a small discrete wedding and when we initially said this we were reminded of Chinese culture, respect etc.  At this point my good wife asked what part of the groom was Chinese and was he aware of the British tradition that the brides father pays.

At this point, reality dawned, and it wasn't about cash, filial piety etc but rather that that it was a mix of 2 different cultures, both of which need to be accepted

 LOL!
Bet there was a massive "Waaaaaaaaaaaaah" when she dropped that bombshell on him.

Did he pay? How many business associates turned up?

[Scummy not logged in]

Something average-Joe Western parents don't really do.
Yo dude you're 18, you jolly well get a government student loan. And move out and work for your own keep at university. Heck, I showered love food and care on you all of 18 years. Now it's time for me. It's all about independence.
Nevermind their kid will be in instant debt once they graduate.  In the meantime, we're off in our mobile home to see the world, or to cruise the Caribbean and Mexico.
Is there any wonder some of these kids don't feel any concept of filial piety? It's easy enough to send cards to do other touchy feely things superifically. Or get kids to draw cards.

Doesn't sound like my parents, or indeed those of any of my friends. My parents supported me financially through university and the lower earning years afterwards. Like many Western parents they would be embarassed to accept money from their children, and it's often very hard to persuade them to let us pay for their flights. It doesn't mean that we don't respect or love them or help them (financially) when they need it.

Ok, so maybe Westerners shouldn't knock Asian values they "don't understand", but it works the other way too.