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Author Topic: Does anyone send their kids to public school?  (Read 7017 times)
fugu_master
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« on: 28 January 2010, 4:23:31 am »
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Hi all - I'm in the final stages of a job offer in Singapore and moving from New Zealand and I'm looking at schooling options for my two kids (7 and 5.)  We expect to be in Singapore for 3-5 years.

The company isn't paying for schooling (I wish!) and international (private) schools seem to be around $20k - $25k per year - which x2 kids = $50k+ after all other expenses included.  One of the reasons for moving is save up money not spend it all!!

I realise its possible to get into local schools but may be long wait lists since priority is given to locals. I am Chinese (born in NZ) so I would like my kids to speak Mandarin, but I am not obsessed about high grades and exam results for the sake of it.

So is public schooling a good idea or not?  At the price of private education, I was thinking I may as well find another expat couple with 2 kids similar ages and bring over my own private teacher and split the cost!!  It would be less expensive and get better quality attention.

Interested to hear your thoughts...


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« on: 28 January 2010, 4:23:31 am »
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« Reply #1 on: 28 January 2010, 9:08:39 am »
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Mine are at International school but have been interested in the idea of a 'governess' tutor or similar for some time. I am not bothered about flash facilities and find class sizes at the 'private' schools here too big - at home the reason most go private in the first place is for small classes - 16-20 children no more than that. Then the children can get individual attention.

From my first investigations though to get a really great tutor here would cost very big bucks.
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wish we'd gone local
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« Reply #2 on: 28 January 2010, 10:27:29 am »
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I wish we'd sent our children to local school when we arrived because international is very expensive, but we've been here so long now that they've actually got less years left at school than they've already done so we're going to stick it out, but like you say, you probably won't be saving any money if they're at international (we don't). 

Local schools - they're OK, they're quite academic and many of the parents get very obsessed with grades and putting their kids in extra lessons after school and things like that, but you don't have to do that, it's purely optional.  The best thing to do is to go and vew some when you get here and see what you think.  Tanjong Katong and East coast primary have a reputation for having quite a lot of expats in (mostly from Asia but some from elsewhere too).
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« Reply #3 on: 28 January 2010, 11:19:40 am »
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Local schools - they're OK, they're quite academic and many of the parents get very obsessed with grades and putting their kids in extra lessons after school and things like that, but you don't have to do that, it's purely optional. 

going the local school route (really depends on which school you choose, as pp said for how 'competitive' and stressful' the experience may be) will put your child in better academic standing when he/she goes back to home country.

overall, even if you don't go into the top tier local schools (the most competitive and stressful ones even if they garner the best results in IB and O-A Levels); i feel the experience and standard in any local Singapore school is still definitely better than that in a public Western school.

more accountability on the part of the teachers for example. more structured expectations, better foundations laid, and bilingual expectations.

the academic standard, discipline and habits learnt in Singapore local schools seem definitely higher than most public schools abroad. comparing apples with apples.

most local students who go abroad find first two years of foreign university abroad a breeze = an easy, no brainer effrotless honeymoon.
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fugu_master
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« Reply #4 on: 28 January 2010, 12:20:49 pm »
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Thanks for the feedback - yes I am aware of the level of competitiveness.  I just don't want to send my kids through an experience that is pure rote learning and endless tuition and drills for the sake of exam performance.

From what I understand the local school system and curriculum is a high standard.  I do have some concerns about getting in due to local waiting lists, but will just have to stick it out and see.


   
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« Reply #5 on: 28 January 2010, 12:44:33 pm »
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one aspect to bear in mind that hasn't been raised is the manners (or lack of them) in local schools....there is little or no emphasis on these by the teachers.....never mind them picking up the horrendeous singlish ....which is a debate altogether...we had our son in a more local nursery and moved him out at 3 because of these issues....
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cb
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« Reply #6 on: 28 January 2010, 13:24:05 pm »
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"most local students who go abroad find first two years of foreign university abroad a breeze = an easy, no brainer effrotless honeymoon."

I've seen and been told the exact opposite. The school system here teaches people to memorize and not really think on their own two feet. Why are so many expats here if the school system produces "geniuses"? My Wife (who has lived here most of her life) and I have discussed this and would never put our kids in a local school because we believe it will adversely effect them in the future.

I get paid good money because I'm creative and maybe a little smart....
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« Reply #7 on: 28 January 2010, 14:08:24 pm »
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"most local students who go abroad find first two years of foreign university abroad a breeze = an easy, no brainer effrotless honeymoon."

I've seen and been told the exact opposite. The school system here teaches people to memorize and not really think on their own two feet.

I have to confess, that did cross my mind too - it is very rote learning here and I have met a couple of foreign teachers who've taught local schools and found it to be very frustrating because the kids were so lacking in imagination (as I'm sure you can figure out, they weren't maths teachers  Wink  they were English teachers).  Perhaps that is why science and maths are subjects that kids here seem to do well in.

I also wonder how the students from local schools get on when they move abroad to study - it must be a bit of an eye opener for them if they end up somewhere like the UK or Australia.
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« Reply #8 on: 28 January 2010, 14:17:20 pm »
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Local schools - they're OK, they're quite academic and many of the parents get very obsessed with grades and putting their kids in extra lessons after school and things like that, but you don't have to do that, it's purely optional. 

going the local school route (really depends on which school you choose, as pp said for how 'competitive' and stressful' the experience may be) will put your child in better academic standing when he/she goes back to home country.

overall, even if you don't go into the top tier local schools (the most competitive and stressful ones even if they garner the best results in IB and O-A Levels); i feel the experience and standard in any local Singapore school is still definitely better than that in a public Western school.

more accountability on the part of the teachers for example. more structured expectations, better foundations laid, and bilingual expectations.

the academic standard, discipline and habits learnt in Singapore local schools seem definitely higher than most public schools abroad. comparing apples with apples.

most local students who go abroad find first two years of foreign university abroad a breeze = an easy, no brainer effrotless honeymoon.

What on earth are you talking about? "More accountability on the part of the teachers"? You mean that local parents expect to be able to call the teacher (at home or on their handphone) and abuse the teacher when their kids don't get the grades they want? Yes, this happens. I have been on the receiving end of it, and a few years ago it was an issue discussed in parliament here...

"Better foundations laid"? In which areas? The children I taught could spit out answers to complex maths problems without blinking an eye, could recite any rote-learned simile or metaphor etc but could not share with their peers. They thought laughing at someone's misfortune (like falling over, or getting a low test score) was absolutely fine. They blamed their maid for their homework not being done, or their bags not having the correct equipment etc. My colleagues often called students "stupid" or "salmon" (a fish that swims backwards...), and parents felt that the entire job of educating their children fell on the school. Parents also had a total lack of social awareness, and would interrupt conversations, ask their children not to sit next to certain races and openly compared children's scores. I hated my teaching time in this environment, needless to say, and I strongly disagree with your claim that "any local Singapore school is still definitely better than that in a public Western school"...

As for university being a breeze after local schools, that is just more nonsense. Most Singaporeans do not skip years at university (another common urban myth often touted in Singapore) and they do not laugh their way through it. Often, their once-high-scoring essays are considered virtually unintelligible, and they have great difficulty applying new knowledge.

Having said all this, OP, there are good schools here. The government is aware that the issues need addressing, and they have started implementing this into a number of smaller, progressive satellite schools. Look for multi-cultural schools with multi-cultural staff, and a range of parent-teacher activities. These will be in the outskirt areas, mostly. These schools will not simply drill your kids and have new 'initiatives' (like 'discovery' and 'student-guided learning' etc). They would be a good match for someone from a Western perspective of education.

School starts the year a child turns 7, so your kids will not even enter secondary school (which is an even bigger can of worms). For primary, you should be fine.
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« Reply #9 on: 28 January 2010, 14:30:38 pm »
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"School starts the year a child turns 7, so your kids will not even enter secondary school (which is an even bigger can of worms). For primary, you should be fine."

I'm not sure I'd even say that for primary.  My son is in a local preschool, which has been great for him... until now.  He's just entered K1 (he's 4) and suddenly the pressure is on!  They are working the kids so hard, and he actually came back with a spelling list for me to work on with him yesterday...  I'm really shocked by how much they are trying to teach the kids at this age, but the principle has told me it is so they are prepared for school when they leave at 6.

My son is starting at an international school later this year, and I have to say, I wish he was starting now.

OP - from my very small experience of local schools, I would not recommend them.  Kids should be allowed to be kids for as long as possible.
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Aliya
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« Reply #10 on: 28 January 2010, 15:06:16 pm »
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We are from NZ as well and will be sending our girls to a local school but a Catholic one for several reasons including a less taxing cirriculum than the more local ones.
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fugu_master
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« Reply #11 on: 28 January 2010, 15:35:23 pm »
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@kiwi teacher - do you happen to have any examples of "good" schools (that are not purely academic driven).   A few posts down have mentioned Opera Estate Primary so will check that out.

My daughter is currently at school in NZ, and already she's having to do spelling and maths tests weekly (far above what I was doing at her age), so she is used to a little pressure.  
 
Does anyone else have any local school recommendations that are less rote learning?  
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« Reply #12 on: 28 January 2010, 16:06:33 pm »
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while i agree that the top-tier Signapore schools are rote-learning, highly competitive pressure cookers ... i disagree that Singaporeans do not do well when they go abroad.

in fact, it is common in many Western university faculties to find most Asians (Japanese, Koreans, Taiwanese, HK, China, SE-Asians, Indians) from the pressure cooker countries who are the majority which constitue the honor roll in high schools and who are the A-scorers in foreign universities.

UK, USA, Canada, Australia.

even those in the 'below average range' in Singapore manage to do ok in average universities abroad. often in universities abroad the average C student in Singapore manages to shine with a couple of ego-boostintg As.

what does this say?

skeptics can try the reverse situation -  vice-versa. returning public-school student. compare and see if they can thrive in the Singapore system. (same grade level).

even returning Singaporeans with kids educated abroad know their kids rank 2-3 grades behind.
i have heard an expat IB mom complain before that her daughter, already from one of top tier IB programme back home, seemed behind when she joined the local system.

(for that matter, any returning Asian to their homelands - education remains one of their top fears - that their Western-educated kids cannot catch up. neither are they disciplined enough).

i am comparing public schools with public schools.
and yes, i'd say Singapore public schools still come out better.


American homeschoolers are now even using the Singapore Math and Science books as their official texts - SG Math and Science now ranks among the top globally.

now if you're talking *private* schooling abroad, ok.
that's a different matter altogether.





 
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cb
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« Reply #13 on: 28 January 2010, 16:28:51 pm »
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thumbs up,

Perhaps you could provide some published facts? From personal experience and by others it seems, this is not the case.

Also, you seem to be turning this thread into an us versus them. Would you happen to be local?
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$Pripps
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« Reply #14 on: 28 January 2010, 16:43:13 pm »
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Maybe a few years here in local school before returning to West may be a good thing, it sure helped my son who was really crappy in school before he came here. Now he is back in Europe and doing quite well.

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