Marriage

[Ctrl+Alt+Del]

Just interested to know your views on the concept/institution of marriage and if you think it will be the norm in the years to come?

[the norm?]

Will it be 'the norm' in the future? Yes, for some. Just like it is now. Does it really matter? If you don't want to do it, don't.

[scarbowl]

Can't see much changing here, at least.  Perhaps marriage between same gender partners will be more acceptable in the west.  But that's about it. 

But this is so speculative as to really have no meaning.  It's like saying "How will football be different in 20 years?"  What does it matter what we THINK will happen?

I'm wondering why you are asking.

[Vulcanl]

I think that OP's question is a perfectly reasonable one, esp from a young person's point of view.  Modern society has made us very self-absorbed and selfish.  If I were a young person today I would seriously question 'what's in it for me' when it comes to marriage.  It is a sad commentary of the times.

Marriage entails trust, empathy, generosity, genuine caring for your spouse and the ultimate challenge in terms of compromise.  It is work, sometimes HARD work!  But of course anything worth having involves sacrifice and it should not come easy.

I am all for the institution of marriage.  It is the bedrock of civilization with good reason.  The only reason to get married at all is to have children.  Marriage is the prerequisite to procreation.  It is for this reason that it should continue to enjoy its special status as a union between a man and a woman.  Calling anything else 'marriage' is an insult to this very special bond.

Human beings are a social species.  I could not imagine growing old by myself.  I prize my own marriage and my family is the center of my World.  Nothing else even comes close.

My opinion is that marriage will indeed continue to be the norm in the years to come.

[jalanperak]

I am all for the institution of marriage.  It is the bedrock of civilization with good reason.  The only reason to get married at all is to have children. 

While I agree with you that marriage will continue as an institution, I strongly disagree with this last sentence. Wanting to have children is a very good reason to get married (some would say essential, and I wouldn't disagree), but the logic doesn't flow both ways. There are lots of reasons to get married that don't involve having any (more) children.

[dumb mum]

"Marriage is an institution - and who wants to live in an institution"

Please tell me who said this?

[Sounds like]

"Marriage is an institution - and who wants to live in an institution"

Please tell me who said this?

Groucho?

[Why marriage]

I am all for the institution of marriage.  It is the bedrock of civilization with good reason.  The only reason to get married at all is to have children. 

While I agree with you that marriage will continue as an institution, I strongly disagree with this last sentence. Wanting to have children is a very good reason to get married (some would say essential, and I wouldn't disagree), but the logic doesn't flow both ways. There are lots of reasons to get married that don't involve having any (more) children.

I don't understand why you need a marriage certificate to have children

[makes no difference]

Calling anything else 'marriage' is an insult to this very special bond.

Personally I think that's rubbish - marriage is just a piece of paper.  Plenty of people get married and then stray. 

We lived together for 15 years and had children before we got married, and we only got married because we were moving here and it made it a bit of a smoother exercise.  If we'd never moved here we'd still be together but I doubt we'd be married.

Staying with the same person is something that you either want to do or you don't - a ring and a piece of paper aren't going to stop a person from doing what they (or their loins) want them to do. 

Actually, if people like Vulcan are so pro-marriage, they should have the ultimate respect for those who are not married but whom stay faithful to each other.  Surely those people are the ones who have stood the true test.

[post marriage]

I would agree with all of the points made by the previous post and only add that, in the event of the dissolution of the relationship, being married in the legal sense, would probably assist in sorting through matters like how to split up the assets acquired during the relationship, assigning financial responsibility for caring for the children, etc.   I'm not a lawyer and there are probably other legal frameworks that could substitute for marriage.

So why do we need it?  If children are not going to be part of the picture, then I would say that marriage is probably becoming an outdated concept.  As others have said, men and women still stray while married, and couples remain faithful while not legally married.  A wedding is, however, a statement made in front of witnesses (friends, family, etc.) of one's devotion to their partner.  But, that's not a necessity either.   

My personal view is that marriage often binds people in a relationship that they ought not be in.  There is so much guilt and shame associated with divorce. 

[Vulcanl]

“…I don't understand why you need a marriage certificate to have children…”

Because you need a solid foundation before undertaking the unbelievably hard work that goes into developing a well-adjusted person who will eventually become a contributing member of society.  From a purely legal standpoint, it confers certain privileges that are still valuable

“…Personally I think that's rubbish - marriage is just a piece of paper...”

This is a disturbing statement.  Marriage is NOT ‘just a piece of paper.’  It is a COMMITMENT before God and man.  THE ultimate commitment on Earth, actually

“…Plenty of people get married and then stray…”

Yes, and plenty of people in other types of relationships do the same.  Doesn’t prove anything.  The married people who stray have made mistakes.  Some marriages actually survive this

“…We lived together for 15 years and had children before we got married, and we only got married because we were moving here and it made it a bit of a smoother exercise.  If we'd never moved here we'd still be together but I doubt we'd be married...”

OK, so you have just proved my statement about the legal advantages of being married.  Here is my problem with just ‘living together’ indefinitely: It is too easy.  At any point either party can just walk away, or otherwise justify behavior that would not be acceptable as a married person.  It is a way of having it all ways, and as we know in life when we try to do that bad things happen

“….Staying with the same person is something that you either want to do or you don't - a ring and a piece of paper aren't going to stop a person from doing what they (or their loins) want them to do….”

Then the concept of marriage has completely gone over your head!!!  It is ALL ABOUT COMMITMENT…no other kind of commitment comes close, that is what makes marriage so special.  It is a union between two people like no other

“…Actually, if people like Vulcan are so pro-marriage, they should have the ultimate respect for those who are not married but whom stay faithful to each other.  Surely those people are the ones who have stood the true test….”

I don’t see how….the real test is swearing that oath before God and Man and never breaking it

[makes no difference]

the real test is swearing that oath before God and Man and never breaking it

No, the real test is not to break it - swearing an oath is like saying you'll do the dishes and then not doing them.  I'm not religious, so swearing an oath before any god means nothing.

no other kind of commitment comes close, that is what makes marriage so special.  It is a union between two people like no other

it is a union, but a union that can be done without a ceremony if necessary.  Plenty of people spend their whole lives together without ever getting married - that's commitment.  Look at gay people, before they brought in the gay marriages, plenty of them were married in all but name.

OK, so you have just proved my statement about the legal advantages of being married.  Here is my problem with just ‘living together’ indefinitely: It is too easy.  At any point either party can just walk away, or otherwise justify behavior that would not be acceptable as a married person.  It is a way of having it all ways, and as we know in life when we try to do that bad things happen

You can do plenty of things to make living together as legal as marriage without actually having to get married.  We never did (apart from making wills), but that was our choice.  And you can walk away from a marriage if you want, divorce has made it much easier to do so too, but even before that, plenty of people walked away from their marriage.


I'll stick by my thoughts though, you don't need to get married to have a good life with someone but if you do want to get hitched then that's also fine.  We will have to agree to disagree. 

[To: V]

“…I don't understand why you need a marriage certificate to have children…”

Because you need a solid foundation before undertaking the unbelievably hard work that goes into developing a well-adjusted person who will eventually become a contributing member of society. 

Yes, you need that solid foundation etc. But that foundation doesn't come from the certificate, it comes from the relationship.

You also don't need the paper to be committed. You can swear whatever in front of whoever, but at the end of the day it's meaningless, especially now that many countries have no fault divorce.

I admire your views and think they are admirable, though somewhat naive.

[25 cents]

I agree with a lot of the points made- marriage is little guarantee of stability, fidelity or commitment.

But it remains we don't live in isolation and a relationship invarialy involves more than two people. Expats generally care little about meeting social conventions- they wouldn't have moved countries/continents if they're too deeply rooted to their communities. The same cannot be always be said of their families- or their partner's families- however. Like it or not, we sometimes have to buckle down to convention, not so much to please ourselves but the people we care about.

[Shrink]

“…I don't understand why you need a marriage certificate to have children…”

Because you need a solid foundation before undertaking the unbelievably hard work that goes into developing a well-adjusted person who will eventually become a contributing member of society.  From a purely legal standpoint, it confers certain privileges that are still valuable

So were your parents married?