Affordability?

[Seriously...]

EVERY Government in the World does this (provide one-sided spin on how 'good' everything is).  Singapore's govt is no different in this regard. 

I think the problem is that everyone's expectations and sense of entitlement are too high.

For the expat earning 20K month, there is nothing preventing you from finding a place with plenty of space for 3K per month.  You just need to be willing to lower your standards. 

The situation is what it is.  If you cannot 'afford' to live here, then you shouldn't be here and should seek a location more closely aligned with your situation.

As for the locals complaining about high HDB prices....I would really like to know how many of you feel that you also 'need' a car, a maid, tuition for your children, eating out all the time, etc.

I have seen very affordable homes firsthand in good locations.  They are not exactly close to the CBD, but you can't have everything.  Life is all about balance and compromise. 

I totally agree with Vulcan. There is no perfect place. In Australia & Canada, you have plenty of options to stay in big houses but you have to pay up to 50% taxes and it is a good 30 mins drive to the city centre. In Singapore, everyone is spoilt with numerous choices of brand new apartments in city area, that many forgot that they were not staying in city centre, back home!

I do not think the Vulcan is being a willing sheep but he is being very sensible. How many of you, seriously, used to stay in a 3500sf apartment right in the city centre, and was only paying Euro$3K rent, in major financial centres like London and New York? If you want to compare the cost of living in Singapore compared to a sub-urban lifestyle in other parts of the world, you are not comparing apple to apple.

If you are earning $20k/month, you are already earning more than the country who is ranked number 1 (Qatar @ US87,717) in international purchasing power parity (PPP) per capita (wiki GDP at PPP per capita). And if you are earning more than the highest ranking international PPP, and you are still having problems with affordability, you probably need an accountant or financial adviser, seriously! Consider carefully if you seriously need 2 cars, dinners in Les Amis every week and Four Seasons Hotels for every vacation. 

When you want to talk about affordability, you have to look at the entire package, not a skewed perspective of what you want to see/think. Every cities have its pro and cons, and at the end of the day, you have to decide for yourself what is more important, and go to the country that can fit your expectations more, instead of whining so much about what is wrong in Singapore. If this place is really so bad and unaffordable, why are you here and still here?

[$Pripps]

of course the locals will have better benefits/advantages than foreigners right? I am pretty sure its the same in most countries.

that is a false assumption.

in Scandinavia all residents have same rights/advantages as anybody else, the only difference between citizens and residents is that the former can vote in elections and in some cases must do NS. The reasoning behind this is that all people who are residents pay tax and as such are entitled to all what the tax buys, no exceptions.

There is no need to sugar coat citizenship, people are grown up and can decide whether they become citizens or not. In such a case you get a much more motivated citizen than somebody who does it just to get benefits.

[Kubes.SG]

of course the locals will have better benefits/advantages than foreigners right? I am pretty sure its the same in most countries.

I can say the same for Australia. All people are considered equal under the AU law.  There are many benefits provided for housing, healthcare, education, etc. for Australian citizens most of which I understand are also available to permanent residents, and even people who have just arrived in Australia as immigrants or legally as refugees.  The later to will get free or subsidized housing, unemployment/training benefits, free healthcare, etc. before they ever pay 1 cent in tax.

Again, this the kind of compassionate support that confident, mature democracies provide to new arrivals to help them get started on a better life.  Discriminating against, or benefiting people, because of their passport, race or religion may be unconstitutional.

I agree with a basic safety net but I do worry it has become too generous.  The consequence of this generosity are the large numbers of illegal "boat-people" enabled by the people-trafficers who move people from most countries in South Asia/South East Asia to then float from Indonesia to Australia.  AU is now spending billions of $$$ processing the illegal immgrants while there fate is determined.

How many refugees does Singapore take it each year?  What support is provided to them?

[Seriously...]

of course the locals will have better benefits/advantages than foreigners right? I am pretty sure its the same in most countries.

that is a false assumption.

in Scandinavia all residents have same rights/advantages as anybody else, the only difference between citizens and residents is that the former can vote in elections and in some cases must do NS. The reasoning behind this is that all people who are residents pay tax and as such are entitled to all what the tax buys, no exceptions.

There is no need to sugar coat citizenship, people are grown up and can decide whether they become citizens or not. In such a case you get a much more motivated citizen than somebody who does it just to get benefits.

Seems like a great place to stay. Question of the day: Why are you not in Scandi and, here in Singapore?

[Seriously...]

of course the locals will have better benefits/advantages than foreigners right? I am pretty sure its the same in most countries.

I can say the same for Australia. All people are considered equal under the AU law.  There are many benefits provided for housing, healthcare, education, etc. for Australian citizens most of which I understand are also available to permanent residents, and even people who have just arrived in Australia as immigrants or legally as refugees.  The later to will get free or subsidized housing, unemployment/training benefits, free healthcare, etc. before they ever pay 1 cent in tax.

Again, this the kind of compassionate support that confident, mature democracies provide to new arrivals to help them get started on a better life.  Discriminating against, or benefiting people, because of their passport, race or religion may be unconstitutional.

I agree with a basic safety net but I do worry it has become too generous.  The consequence of this generosity are the large numbers of illegal "boat-people" enabled by the people-trafficers who move people from most countries in South Asia/South East Asia to then float from Indonesia to Australia.  AU is now spending billions of $$$ processing the illegal immgrants while there fate is determined.

How many refugees does Singapore take it each year?  What support is provided to them?

Singapore have limited capacity to take in refugees for the most obvious reasons. In case you haven't noticed, Singapore is a tiny island!

Under AU laws, everyone is equal. But you need to remember that to apply for citizenship and PR, there is also a list of criteria that need to be fulfilled. It used to be lax but I understand that due to excessive immigrants in the past, they are tightening the number of entries as well. When Australia is doing their immigrant approval process, do you not think that they will take into consideration the passport, race and/or religion?

One may qualify on paper that they can immigrate to Australia but not everyone are admitted. If this is the case, you will see the streets of Australia be filled with Indians and Mainland Chinese!

[$Pripps]

of course the locals will have better benefits/advantages than foreigners right? I am pretty sure its the same in most countries.

that is a false assumption.

in Scandinavia all residents have same rights/advantages as anybody else, the only difference between citizens and residents is that the former can vote in elections and in some cases must do NS. The reasoning behind this is that all people who are residents pay tax and as such are entitled to all what the tax buys, no exceptions.

There is no need to sugar coat citizenship, people are grown up and can decide whether they become citizens or not. In such a case you get a much more motivated citizen than somebody who does it just to get benefits.

Seems like a great place to stay. Question of the day: Why are you not in Scandi and, here in Singapore?

Well my wife worked here when we met, but eventually we will return.

[Even]

I can say the same for Australia. All people are considered equal under the AU law.  There are many benefits provided for housing, healthcare, education, etc. for Australian citizens most of which I understand are also available to permanent residents, and even people who have just arrived in Australia as immigrants or legally as refugees.  The later to will get free or subsidized housing, unemployment/training benefits, free healthcare, etc. before they ever pay 1 cent in tax.

Again, this the kind of compassionate support that confident, mature democracies provide to new arrivals to help them get started on a better life.  Discriminating against, or benefiting people, because of their passport, race or religion may be unconstitutional.

I agree with a basic safety net but I do worry it has become too generous.  The consequence of this generosity are the large numbers of illegal "boat-people" enabled by the people-trafficers who move people from most countries in South Asia/South East Asia to then float from Indonesia to Australia.  AU is now spending billions of $$$ processing the illegal immgrants while there fate is determined.

How many refugees does Singapore take it each year?  What support is provided to them?

Singapore have limited capacity to take in refugees for the most obvious reasons. In case you haven't noticed, Singapore is a tiny island!

You don't think it might be better to take a fair share of refugees rather than import Foreign Workers...... no wait, the government benefits from charging companies, ergo the tax payer, a levy on each worker.

[Kubes.SG]

Singapore have limited capacity to take in refugees for the most obvious reasons. In case you haven't noticed, Singapore is a tiny island!

Under AU laws, everyone is equal. But you need to remember that to apply for citizenship and PR, there is also a list of criteria that need to be fulfilled. It used to be lax but I understand that due to excessive immigrants in the past, they are tightening the number of entries as well. When Australia is doing their immigrant approval process, do you not think that they will take into consideration the passport, race and/or religion?

One may qualify on paper that they can immigrate to Australia but not everyone are admitted. If this is the case, you will see the streets of Australia be filled with Indians and Mainland Chinese!

So there are no refugees taken in by Singapore, because there is no room for them?   ha ha ha ha.   You must be joking. 

Each of the last 5 or 6 years SG has brought in well over 100,000 foreign workers and there has been no problems.  A few thousand refugees won't even be noticed.  Singapore should grow up and show some compassion, and let some of these desperate people get away from their oppression.

Or is the reason that SG Govt would have to spend some money to provide the basic support for housing, education, healthcare for these desperate people?   Maybe you will claim that SG is too poor?   Could that be the reason?

Nope - it is just plan and simple selfishness. 

[P.O.D.]

EVERY Government in the World does this (provide one-sided spin on how 'good' everything is).  Singapore's govt is no different in this regard. 

I think the problem is that everyone's expectations and sense of entitlement are too high.

For the expat earning 20K month, there is nothing preventing you from finding a place with plenty of space for 3K per month.  You just need to be willing to lower your standards. 

The situation is what it is.  If you cannot 'afford' to live here, then you shouldn't be here and should seek a location more closely aligned with your situation.

As for the locals complaining about high HDB prices....I would really like to know how many of you feel that you also 'need' a car, a maid, tuition for your children, eating out all the time, etc.

I have seen very affordable homes firsthand in good locations.  They are not exactly close to the CBD, but you can't have everything.  Life is all about balance and compromise. 

I totally agree with Vulcan. There is no perfect place. In Australia & Canada, you have plenty of options to stay in big houses but you have to pay up to 50% taxes and it is a good 30 mins drive to the city centre. In Singapore, everyone is spoilt with numerous choices of brand new apartments in city area, that many forgot that they were not staying in city centre, back home!

I do not think the Vulcan is being a willing sheep but he is being very sensible. How many of you, seriously, used to stay in a 3500sf apartment right in the city centre, and was only paying Euro$3K rent, in major financial centres like London and New York? If you want to compare the cost of living in Singapore compared to a sub-urban lifestyle in other parts of the world, you are not comparing apple to apple.

If you are earning $20k/month, you are already earning more than the country who is ranked number 1 (Qatar @ US87,717) in international purchasing power parity (PPP) per capita (wiki GDP at PPP per capita). And if you are earning more than the highest ranking international PPP, and you are still having problems with affordability, you probably need an accountant or financial adviser, seriously! Consider carefully if you seriously need 2 cars, dinners in Les Amis every week and Four Seasons Hotels for every vacation. 

When you want to talk about affordability, you have to look at the entire package, not a skewed perspective of what you want to see/think. Every cities have its pro and cons, and at the end of the day, you have to decide for yourself what is more important, and go to the country that can fit your expectations more, instead of whining so much about what is wrong in Singapore. If this place is really so bad and unaffordable, why are you here and still here?

Vulcan, I pay SGD 3,500 for 1,700sf and its way out of the city.

[Seriously...]

I totally agree with Vulcan. There is no perfect place. In Australia & Canada, you have plenty of options to stay in big houses but you have to pay up to 50% taxes and it is a good 30 mins drive to the city centre. In Singapore, everyone is spoilt with numerous choices of brand new apartments in city area, that many forgot that they were not staying in city centre, back home!

I do not think the Vulcan is being a willing sheep but he is being very sensible. How many of you, seriously, used to stay in a 3500sf apartment right in the city centre, and was only paying Euro$3K rent, in major financial centres like London and New York? If you want to compare the cost of living in Singapore compared to a sub-urban lifestyle in other parts of the world, you are not comparing apple to apple.

If you are earning $20k/month, you are already earning more than the country who is ranked number 1 (Qatar @ US87,717) in international purchasing power parity (PPP) per capita (wiki GDP at PPP per capita). And if you are earning more than the highest ranking international PPP, and you are still having problems with affordability, you probably need an accountant or financial adviser, seriously! Consider carefully if you seriously need 2 cars, dinners in Les Amis every week and Four Seasons Hotels for every vacation. 

When you want to talk about affordability, you have to look at the entire package, not a skewed perspective of what you want to see/think. Every cities have its pro and cons, and at the end of the day, you have to decide for yourself what is more important, and go to the country that can fit your expectations more, instead of whining so much about what is wrong in Singapore. If this place is really so bad and unaffordable, why are you here and still here?

Vulcan, I pay SGD 3,500 for 1,700sf and its way out of the city.

Your point being?

I pay $2,100 for 1050sf and it takes me 10 minutes to walk to paragon.

[apples and oranges]

Despite what locals may wish to think comparing Singapore to London or New York isn't comparing apples to apples either.

Singapore is overpriced.

[bright idea]

this the kind of compassionate support that confident, mature democracies provide to new arrivals to help them get started on a better life.

Sounds good. Let's copy Australia and raise the tax ceiling to 47% so we can bring in refugees.
 

[Correction]

Singapore is not overpriced. Its really cheap here.

[another correction]

Sure it is dopey boy, where you comparing it to?

Idiot.

[Billionaire]

Ya, Singapore is so cheap that even a labourer paid $450 a month have a really good life. We Singaporeans are a generous and compassionate lot, when it comes to looking after the average man on the street. Check out that whopping US$50,000 that we gave to victims of the earthquake in Haiti...what were the Singaporean people thinking giving away so much???