More marital problems

[kd]

Yes, I'd recommend you contact AWARE.  On a side note, I was recently told that if the husband wants to, he can stop the wife from taking the kids back to their home country until they are 18.  This has happened to a friend of a friend.  He has someone else, having separated a few years back.  She desperately wants to return to Oz but is unable to take the kids with her due to a court injunction.  This sounds weird to me - being forced to stay in a foreign country... 

[to pp]

Yes sounds weird but true.

As before, one spouse can't leave without permission of other one and just decide to take the kids. Their residence is here.  Need sole custody to do this.

People tend to side with the wife on this but why?  Knew one guy where his wife left gim and came back, tried to make it work but didn't happen.

On divorce she was main custodian but not sole (ie kid lived with her most but not all of the time).  She then decided she wished to leave. No can do.  In fact he sued based on current status and got awarded custody to make sure she can't try this again.

These things are hard but one party deciding to up and leave place of residence of all of you and automatically assume kids follow isn't really on, whether male or female side.

OPs husband sounds like a right tosser but she doesn't have the right to take kid out of the country.

[call his bluff]

I went through this a few years back. I tried to get my abusive spouse's DP cancelled, and it was not something I was able to do as the EP holder. I had to go to my company's HR department and have them do it on his behalf.

The OP's husband might be willing to spill the beans to his company about why he wants to cancel his wife's DP, but I highly doubt it.

OP, hide your passport and keep your DP with you at all times. He is talking nonsense and is being a bully.

[Wrong]

well I won't flame you, it's a horrible situation and he can't be a very nice bloke to threaten you with something like that after you've come all this way from home to be with him.

I'm not sure what the legalities of it are but what I would consider doing if I was in your situation would be to arrange a trip home with your child and simply not return.  You'd have to sneakily pack and perhaps send some of your clothes and things on ahead and then go.  If he travels for business then that'd be an ideal opportunity to do it.  Don't stick around for him to bully you because he does sound like a bully to threaten a thing like that.  But whatever you do, don't threaten him back, just go!

Very bad idea.

While I sympathise with OP this is abduction and neither the UK or Singaporean authorities will look on it well.  This is a very good way to lose custody permanently.  The poster above may think possession is 90% of the law, they are very, very wrong.

As others said, go to High Commission and also talk to a lawyer.

I don't think your husband can easily cancel your DP by the way (but his employer probably can).  That said you can't really do anything for yourself with just a DP, can't rent, get bank stuff etc so pretty much if he cuts you off then you are stuffed.

This is not kidnapping if she is the child's mother and the child is not subject to any custody arrangements.   She has every right to take her child wherever she wants and if I were her I would book tickets on the husband's credit card, while he is away, and return to the UK.

Her husband could then fight her for whatever custody he wants there!

[wrong is wrong]

Yes it is, you are wrong.

Did you read the subsequent post.

Google the Hague convention bit and leave your home lawyer bull at home.

You may look up Singapore family law while you are at it.

While a tosser, the husband is just as much a parent as the wife, what by your logic is to stop him absconding with them, nothing except your incorrect assumption the mother takes precedence (she doesn't, the welfar of the child does but the wife cannot assume that is with her).

You are not allowed to move a child without the permission of both parents or a court order.  This "I'm a parent, can do what I like" is wrong and does op no favours.

[narrow it down]

To wrong,

From the legal stuff you obviously didn't read.

Remove a child from their habitual residence for more than a month without permission is abduction.

Habitual residence is ordinary residence at time before abdjuction, ie Singapore.

In Singapore don't need custody order, deemed joint if not ordered otherwise.

Sorry, you are badly mistaken here.

[Practicalities]

I agree with all the previous posts regarding seeking proper family law advice both in Singapore and in the UK.  Also I believe there is an organisation called REUNITE in the UK who would also be able to advise the OP.

 I know a little about the Hague Convention and it is only enforceable in public international law if both countries (both Singapore and the UK) are signatories - at the moment as far as I am aware Singapore is not which means that if a child is taken from its habitual residence in Singapore to the UK then the child cannot be returned by the UK under that convention.  Although some PPs may be correct in stating that there are offences/restrictions under  domestic Singapore law on OP taking a child permanently outside of Singapore without both parents' consent (I'm not familiar with Singapore law); if the child was taken to the UK, the OP would need to consider what (if any) recourse the husband would have from here in Singapore or through the UK courts (outside of the convention).

Regarding the MOM point, I understand from a friend's experience that an EP holder can, at any time, cancel a DP pass through their HR department (as the PP said) without any detailed reasons being given. One option for the OP if able to work is to get an EP or PEP of her own and transfer the DP of your child to that EP - short term this could present her with more options.

So best advice is get both Singapore law and UK law advice. Best of luck.

[to pp]

Good post.

May I add, Singapore has or had intnetion to sign but will go to court otherwise.

Would you agree neither parent has the rights to abscond with kids and signature or not the convention is clearly against this and it is bad advice?

[Yes, But........]

All of the above regarding custody and the Hague Convention is true.  However, in this case, if I understand correctly, the couple have neither divorced nor are they at the proceedings stage and as such the wife is perfectly entitled to return to her home country with children for the Summer as many women do!

Given that she feels vulnerable to a bully here, surely it would be better if she made urgent plans to secure her financial position and then left with the child?  Let the husband sue for divorce/custody on her terms where she feels safe and supported rather than leaving herself totally exposed and subject to his whims here.

OP:  your situation sounds horrible and you have our sympathy.  I hope that you manage to work this out for you and your child.

[Wrong]

Yes it is, you are wrong.

Did you read the subsequent post.

Google the Hague convention bit and leave your home lawyer bull at home.

You may look up Singapore family law while you are at it.

While a tosser, the husband is just as much a parent as the wife, what by your logic is to stop him absconding with them, nothing except your incorrect assumption the mother takes precedence (she doesn't, the welfar of the child does but the wife cannot assume that is with her).

You are not allowed to move a child without the permission of both parents or a court order.  This "I'm a parent, can do what I like" is wrong and does op no favours.

and you honestly believe that the Singapore court/government is going to go through some sort of extradition hearing for 2 British parents with British children?   Yeah right!!!!

Of course if the aggrieved parent or the children are Singaporean, then I'm sure they would be happy to do so ...

Try living in the real world and not in your narrow little version ...

[Yes but..................]

The OP is very clear.  All concerned are British.  The husband is here on an EP.  Rather than have them tied up in litigation in a country that is not their own, the wife would have significantly better resources and hopefully more support if she were to return to the UK and let him sue for custody there.

And, OP, I hope that you have read the many similar threads about making sure that you are aware of your financial situation and are taking steps to secure your position!

[solutions 4 U]

Singapore don't care too much about the citizens of other countries unless they do something wrong on Singapore soil. 

What the OP could do is return to the UK in the summer (for a holiday), not come back and for all Singapore or anyone else knows, something could have happened to make her change her mind whilst there - husband admitting to an affair over the phone for instance or husband informing her of attempting to cancel her EP while she was out of the country and she didn't think she'd be able to come back - it would all be his word against hers and the UK wouldn't be too fussed about it because the child would be on UK soil.  Singapore have got better things to do than worry about it I'm sure.

OP would have to make sure she only packed for a trip though, and not emptied the house which would then appear to be premeditated.

[bunch of idiots]

Yes the Singapore govt will act.

It is an international treaty and the UK has no option if Singapore has signed (they were due to but this is debatable whether it happened).  You idiot armchair lawyers should just shut up.

Secondly, consider the converse.  You illegally do a runner with the kids.  What is husband going to do re: maintenance and cancelling all your credit cards.  Sure, an award is going to be enforced when you abducted the kids illegally.  Yeah, great plan you f+cking morons.

Potentially lose the kids (if sg signed this is not an if but certain, if not it is maybe) and write off any maintenance.  Way to go.

By far the best plan is get a court order here first.

[makes no difference]

If they are all british.

What matters is their "habitual residence" which is singapore.

Why would she have more resources in UK?  That is rubbish.  Singapore lawyers are also cheaper than uk ones and far more likely to regularly deal with this stuff.

[noob]

You idiot armchair lawyers should just shut up.

why, it's a discussion site.  You post your worldly problems on a discussion site and that's what people do - discuss them.  It doesn't mean that people will give particularly good advice or even that the person who asked the question will ever come back and read what's been put, if they wanted serious advice then they would have gone to a lawyer in the first place, but what people usually do is ask a question, get some ideas and then follow those ideas up in the correct manner.  I'm sure she didn't rush off and book a plane ticket home purely based on any advice she got here............perhaps you would have done, but I'm sure the OP isn't that gullible.


Nor does it mean that people who pretend that they know what the legalities of a situation are or claim to be lawyers posting advice really are who they say they are.

Are you new to the internet?  You sound like you might be.