Charity - Gift or Legacy

[Bagshot, Col]

working mum,

Your comments on this post seem bigoted and highly misinformed.

Is it? how is Pakistan held accountable for all the aid that flows in. Almost all terrorist attack around the world has footprints leading to this country and you say I am bigotted  


http://www.boston.com/bostonglobe/editorial_opinion/oped/articles/2009/10/06/us_aid_to_pakistan_a_shell_game/

There are a lot of aid agencies in India. Yes, even "Western" ones.

Please take a look at the link below, you might find it interesting.

So? Perhaps you should read through their entire website before commenting.
http://www.usaid.gov/in/about_usaid/history.htm


As India became self-sufficient in food production and expanded its industrial capability and infrastructure, the need for U.S. assistance declined.
 
Yes, India needed charity once not anymore. Poverty was a legacy from the years British rule (Thank god they could not uproot the Taj and carry over to Britain for their queen...except that, they have taken almost everything precious  ). Now, India is self sufficient and is the 3rd largest economy in Asia. Yes, we are developing satelites, to ensure that millions of farmers have the latest weather report, to ensure that education reaches remote areas (This is to answer $$Pripps) and Yes, we have an active nuclear program. This is to counter threat from a country which has sworn 1000 years of war against India and whose nuclear weapons are in the danger of falling into war mongering mullah. What do you want India to do? Run to US for help? Sorry, Just as America looks after its own interests, India will do the same as well.

Bigoted - blindly and obstinately attached to some creed or opinion and intolerant toward
others.

I'm not about to get into an India vs Pakistan debate. Clearly you have your own view point and nobody is going to change that anytime soon.

Using op-ed pieces as fact is verging on Vulcan territory.

I read though it. Key word is declined. That doesn't mean stopped.

I'll give you a couple more links to see how "self-sufficient" India is.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_India

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/09/world/asia/09food.html

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/india/Prices-soar-61000-tonnes-of-foodgrain-rot/articleshow/6221436.cms

Satellites are also used for spying and war.

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/LA22Df01.html

http://www.popsci.com/technology/article/2010-01/india-developing-kill-vehicle-knock-enemy-satellites-out-sky

India had nuclear weapons before Pakistan right? You don't think that didn't play a part in Pakistan's race to acquire them. Is India a part of the NPT?

Just as India fears/hates Pakistan, Pakistan fears/hates India too. Pushing all the blame to one side is to simple.

Now my dear I am sure you meant to balance your animated rhetoric by admitting that, Taj Mahal aside (and that rock which was a gift and were keeping  ), all major architectural treasures which remain in India were built by the British, including bridges, roads and let us not forget the training and development of a civil service and judiciary etc. What? And I should know because your colonel helped crack the proverbial whip! What?

In fact I have heard it said that curry is a British dish introduced into the Indian sub continent during the Raj. 

And I note you have patently ignored these monuments allowing them (especially roads) to deteriorate since we granted you self-rule.

As for your industry, you have no brand labels... except Land Rover and Jaguar! 

Our Mr Cameroon thinks India is going places however from my own personal experience it will be many generations before India becomes a developed nation and that will only happen when the appalling apartheid caste system is destroyed completely. And I often wonder how that Ghandi fellow had the gall to fight for equality in an alien land (south Africa) when accepting tacitly and silently this horrible scourge on his own countrymen and women and children. 

[working_mom]

So do tell me how is the aid to Pakistan being used? Does the US audit the aid to Pakistan and what are the auditors saying? I am all ears...

 
Where did I say India is not afflicted with Poverty? I said India can take care of its poverty (or rather mess). We don’t need external aid and the aid agencies operating in India have all the checks in place to ensure that they reach the needy. And most of the aid that flows in are from Indians rather than from Westerners.

Satellites are also used for spying and war.

The operative word being “Also”. Is spying the sole proprietary of US and other developed nations? It is "also" used for development programs, right?

India had nuclear weapons before Pakistan and so did China which invaded India in 1960 and which is actively supporting the covert nuclear program of not just Pakistan but also Iran and N. Korea.  India’s reason for not signing NPT is well-known. If the 5 nuclear haves commit to universal disarmament India will commit as well. Why the discrimination?  India will sign the NPT on equal footing and based on her own safety considerations.

[working_mom]

Ha col! We will listen to you when you are the PM of Britain. Until then we will just go by what Mr.Cameroon says  

[redacted]

So do tell me how is the aid to Pakistan being used? Does the US audit the aid to Pakistan and what are the auditors saying? I am all ears...

I never said that aid money wasn't being used for terrorism. You implication that Pakistan can only be corrupt is outrageous.

Where did I say India is not afflicted with Poverty? I said India can take care of its poverty (or rather mess). We don’t need external aid and the aid agencies operating in India have all the checks in place to ensure that they reach the needy. And most of the aid that flows in are from Indians rather than from Westerners.

Clearly India does need help in this are. See posted links. Clearly aid is not reaching India's needy and is extremely ineffective.

The operative word being “Also”. Is spying the sole proprietary of US and other developed nations? It is "also" used for development programs, right?

Never said it was the sole proprietary.

You said this.

Yes, we are developing satelites, to ensure that millions of farmers have the latest weather report, to ensure that education reaches remote areas (This is to answer $$Pripps)...

Please make up your mind.

India had nuclear weapons before Pakistan and so did China which invaded India in 1960 and which is actively supporting the covert nuclear program of not just Pakistan but also Iran and N. Korea.  India’s reason for not signing NPT is well-known. If the 5 nuclear haves commit to universal disarmament India will commit as well. Why the discrimination?  India will sign the NPT on equal footing and based on her own safety considerations.

It always the other guys fault yeah? The treaty is not just about disarming. Its also about limiting the spread and checks. Having this treaty unsigned is also a hindrance to the importation of uranium for civilian uses such as medical.

Everyone's not out to get India as much as you make out.

India needs aid. India receives aid. Would I give aid to a charity for India? I probably have and just don't know about it.

[working_mom]

Inever said that aid money wasn't being used for terrorism. You implication that Pakistan can only be corrupt is outrageous.

err....that was implied by $$_Pripps and SA Expat about India...All I said was the aid money to pakistan is getting diverted to support terrorism (which you seem to concur as well). Nothing more, nothing less.

Clearly India does need help in this are. See posted links. Clearly aid is not reaching India's needy and is extremely ineffective.

I saw and I also read that the govt is trying to set the system right. I dont see any foreign donations or contributions or external aid agencies in the picture.

Never said it was the sole proprietary. Make up your mind

You make up yours. Mine is made up. India uses its satellite technology for civilian and military purposes. So? Whats the big deal here???

It always the other guys fault yeah? The treaty is not just about disarming. Its also about limiting the spread and checks. Having this treaty unsigned is also a hindrance to the importation of uranium for civilian uses such as medical.

China arms pakistan, N.Korea and Iran coverty but gets to keep its Nuclear weapons but India which has an acknowledged clean record has no right to nuclear weapon??? Sweet!!  By the way, did you hear about the Indo-US civilian nuclear deal?? That answers your "concerns" on India's civilian nuclear necessities

Everyone's not out to get India as much as you make out.

India needs aid. India receives aid. Would I give aid to a charity for India? I probably have and just don't know about it

Nope. I never thought anyone is out there to get India...I am just clearing some misconceptions that some of you seem to carry.

India needs aid...Yes...India receives aid ....Yes...but not from Western nations but from its own people and we are doing it, Yes we can do better. Thank you.

[$Pripps]

And the same reply I gave for SA expat holds for you as well

The thing is that it is in fact my business, indirectly at least, if my government sends tax money as foreign aid to India but then used for other things. India still receives substantial foreign aid from the west,

[working_mom]

The thing is that it is in fact my business, indirectly at least, if my government sends tax money as foreign aid to India but then used for other things. India still receives substantial foreign aid from the west,

So give me the figure for say...2009/2010. Let us see how much of your west's taxpayer's money is being passed to "Corrupt" Hands in india?

[redacted]

err....that was implied by $$_Pripps and SA Expat about India...All I said was the aid money to pakistan is getting diverted to support terrorism (which you seem to concur as well). Nothing more, nothing less.

Please re-read your own statements.

I saw and I also read that the govt is trying to set the system right. I dont see any foreign donations or contributions or external aid agencies in the picture.

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean its not there.

You make up yours. Mine is made up. India uses its satellite technology for civilian and military purposes. So? Whats the big deal here???

I have made up mine. You keep flip flopping on your statements when you are called out. You stated the satellites where to predict weather patterns. The big deal is you are trying to portray there use solely on humanitarian grounds.

China arms pakistan, N.Korea and Iran coverty but gets to keep its Nuclear weapons but India which has an acknowledged clean record has no right to nuclear weapon??? Sweet!! 

Oh oh. Always the other guys fault again. If India is such a fine upstanding world citizen, why can't they sign the NPT?

By the way, did you hear about the Indo-US civilian nuclear deal?? That answers your "concerns" on India's civilian nuclear necessities

Yes I did hear. Is America a large miner of uranium? Can it on-sell the by products? Have any of the big 3 exporters signed an agreement with India?

India needs aid. India receives aid. Would I give aid to a charity for India? I probably have and just don't know about it

[/quote]

Nope. I never thought anyone is out there to get India...I am just clearing some misconceptions that some of you seem to carry.

I think clearly it is you who has the misconceptions.

India needs aid...Yes...India receives aid ....Yes...but not from Western nations but from its own people and we are doing it, Yes we can do better. Thank you.

Once again, you are wrong. Do a simple google search. You will see Britain this year was still giving at least $250 million pounds. Go in depth more and you will see even more countries.

I even posted a link about USAID yesterday yet you still believe India does not receive aid from foreign governments. Crazy.

[working_mom]

 http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/6155156.cms

Dear god!! This article which you are referring to (250 Million aid) says the same thing that I am saying.... INDIA DOES NOT NEED EXTERNAL AID

[redacted]

The thing is that it is in fact my business, indirectly at least, if my government sends tax money as foreign aid to India but then used for other things. India still receives substantial foreign aid from the west,

So give me the figure for say...2009/2010. Let us see how much of your west's taxpayer's money is being passed to "Corrupt" Hands in india?

As it is extremely hard to give up to the minute figures, I have found 2007/2008 for you.

Go here, look, download the stats and you will see India still receive well over $1billion in foreign assistance a year.

http://stats.oecd.org/Index.aspx?DataSetCode=CSP2010

[working_mom]

Please re-read your own statements.

Please help post it for me, will ya?? All I said is that Aid to Pakistan is diverted to support terrorism (I cant see anything about corruption)

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean its not there.

grrrrrrrrrrrrr!! Is it there in the link you posted or not??

I have made up mine. You keep flip flopping on your statements when you are called out. You stated the satellites where to predict weather patterns. The big deal is you are trying to portray there use solely on humanitarian grounds.

So are you saying that India should send satellite solely for humanitarian purpose. So, you do mean that spying using satellite is sole proprietary of developed countries?  

Yes I did hear. Is America a large miner of uranium? Can it on-sell the by products? Have any of the big 3 exporters signed an agreement with India?

Hmm...so, Australia will sell Uranium to well known offender peddeling nuclear technology to pakistan, n.korea and Iran (yeah yeah that is china)...but a country with a clean non-proliferation record like India (acknowledged by the same nuclear powers) will not get the uranium? Care to explain this policy?

[redacted]

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/articleshow/6155156.cms

Dear god!! This article which you are referring to (250 Million aid) says the same thing that I am saying.... INDIA DOES NOT NEED EXTERNAL AID

Flip flop, flip flop.

When was the last time you donated $$ for a catastrophe in India. As for helping poor people, we are doing fine, Can do better sure but thank you, we can take care of our own mess. 

India "was" taking aid and all of it was audited and corruption (yes there was).

I dont see any foreign donations or contributions or external aid agencies in the picture.

India needs aid...Yes...India receives aid ....Yes...but not from Western nations but from its own people and we are doing it, Yes we can do better. Thank you.

[working_mom]

Where did I say India is not afflicted with Poverty? I said India can take care of its poverty (or rather mess). We don’t need external aid and the aid agencies operating in India have all the checks in place to ensure that they reach the needy. And most of the aid that flows in are from Indians rather than from Westerners.

You missed this?? 

[redacted]

Please help post it for me, will ya?? All I said is that Aid to Pakistan is diverted to support terrorism (I cant see anything about corruption)

The word diverted was not used. You have made a slanderous remark which was to only used to upset people.

I did not mention anything about other posters. Only your remark.

grrrrrrrrrrrrr!! Is it there in the link you posted or not??

Actually yes. Just like previous links have shown. You should just admit now that aid does come in from foreign governments before you flip flop some more.

So are you saying that India should send satellite solely for humanitarian purpose. So, you do mean that spying using satellite is sole proprietary of developed countries?  

I'm not saying anything of the sort. What I am saying is you said the satellites where for civilian uses. Clearly this is not the case.

Hmm...so, Australia will sell Uranium to well known offender peddeling nuclear technology to pakistan, n.korea and Iran (yeah yeah that is china)...but a country with a clean non-proliferation record like India (acknowledged by the same nuclear powers) will not get the uranium? Care to explain this policy?

I don't make the rules. Fair or not its besides the point. China is playing by the rules. I'm sure Australia or the IAEA have inspectors vetting the process. I'm sure if the Australian public ever believed/had proof that Australian uranium of nuclear technologies where ever given to "the Axis", heads would role.

[redacted]

Where did I say India is not afflicted with Poverty? I said India can take care of its poverty (or rather mess). We don’t need external aid and the aid agencies operating in India have all the checks in place to ensure that they reach the needy. And most of the aid that flows in are from Indians rather than from Westerners.

You missed this?? 

You really need to make up your mind. Aid from foreigners or not? Yes or no.