Learning to Dive

[londonlass]

My husband & I are interested in getting our Open Water PADI certification and I'm getting rather confused as to the different options so some advice would be great. 

It's slightly complicated by the fact that we have a young toddler who I don't want to leave for an entire weekend. So, I can't decide whether to do the classroom work here in Singapore during a referral course and then to do the Open Water on holiday somewhere where we could bring him and our helper.  Or, whether to just take the full training here in Singapore so we don't have to stay overnight.  However I've heard negative things about the quality of diving here but it's not clear whether the remarks are to do with enjoyment ie: poor visibility or with safety. 

We'd be looking to do the course in early/mid October.

For those of you who got their PADI Open Water whilst living in Singapore, which route would you suggest and which diving school/instructor would you recommend?

Thanks in advance for any and all help.

[divedive]

I cannot tell you a good instructor in Singapore. I will though give you some good advice that was given to me.

When it comes to equipment buy your own and DO NOT scrimp on excellent pieces of vital equipment. Its YOUR LIFE when you are under the water hence its worth the extra money to buy high end stuff.

As for where to take lessons, as the instructors how long they have been diving, when they learned and so on and so forth.

I would assume you can do a substantial amount of training in singapore...in the pool and so on... and then you can go on a trip elsewhere.

The main things to consider is:

1. they should be very safety concious
2. they should have a lot of experience
3. they should be fun

In that order....

[couple of things]

There ARE some good instructors in Singapore, BM will delete this if I name them though.

Some of the clubs (members country clubs not dive clubs so much) conduct training as well, also note PADI isn't your only option (but is the best recognised and most widespread here).  For at least one of the clubs you can join the dive section without joining the club itself.  Again, doubt I can name it.

As well as questions above, ask what the instructor to student ratio is, higher is obviously better.  A lot here cater to the locals who are only interested in cheap.

Also ask how many students they make come back for remedial instruction and do they charge extra (it should be non-zero people but included in cost unless overseas trip, instruction should be covered).

What hidden costs, do they charge for cert cards, is the OW trip included and where to, do you have to hire equipment on top.  You may find a very cheap quote that looks good but then with other stuff added looks rather more expensive.

Mostly there are 3 options here.

1 - Do pool and class sessions here, weekend trip to Tioman or Aur/Dayang (you won't like the accomodation much but anyway).  This is probably most popular but gives a problem with your kid.  Also a problem with you given your timing as you will be hitting start of monsoon, probably be ok but is a risk, you wouldn't want to go any later unless you defer until March.

2 - Do pool here and OW bit on referral.  Can be a good option but some drawbacks.  Some schools will want to charge you more to check your pool skills are up to scratch before doing OW part.  Not a bad thing safety wise but more time and money.  Also, if it is hard to figure out good schools in Singapore then how hard do you think it is somewhere you don't live and can't ask around.

3 - Do it fully local.  This means likely doing OW at Pulau Hantu which is off the South of Singapore.  Good is that it is cheapest.  Bad is visability is aweful and could put you off, on the other hand if you are ok diving there then elsewhere will be a breeze.  Other good thing is you can likely do Sat and Sun morning and not leave the kid overnight.

Lastly, and contrary to pp, I would wait on the equipment.  Sure, get a mask you like and fins, maybe wetsuit but wait on the others.  At least that stuff can all be used for snorkelling.  I wouldn't wait long though, just until you have done your course and a couple of trips.  This is for two reasons.  First is cost.  To set you both up will be order of ~5k (I'm including a couple of decent computers in this), a lot of cash if you decide you just don't get on with it (which isn't uncommon).  There is decent resale value but still.  Second, especially with BCDs, there are a number of different types and good to see what others use and preferably try.  Many people buy one and decide something else is preferable pretty quickly so more cash down the drain.

Hope that helps.

[londonlass]

To "couple of things" and "divedive" - thank you so much for the comprehensive replies.  Definitely stuff to think about - hadn't even considered about buying some of the equipment but I take your point.

Maybe we'll just go the Pulau Hantu route and get the certification - at least then we'd have the option of going for one or two dives on holiday rather than trying to fit in an actual course.  We've snorkelled in a variety of places including the GBR, Red Sea and around Asia so I have a small idea of what lies in store at a place with decent visibility so hopefully Pulau Hantu won't have a chance to put us off! 

Thanks again.

[one more thing]

But further down the line.

Buy good gear (esp reg and bcd) from a reputable brand, eg apeks, scubapro, oceanic, mares etc. You don't need to buy the most expensive. Heat exchangers to stop freezing are rather pointless here, titanium reg don't do much and can be dangerous if you get into more technical stuff. Also don't buy a mares or dacor hub, you will look silly and they are dangerous as well.

I'm not saying go cheap but all say, apeks or scubapro regs will do anything you need for years if looked after. Just don't buy something no-brand off the web. This isn't really about saving money just don't blow it on stuff you don't need.

[Cairnhill]

I did my OWD in Puala Dayang 10 years ago while my BF did his OWD in Hantu last year. He agreed that the visibility is terrible (he had clocked more than 20 dives since) but it works for him because he can focus on diving only.

He belongs to the "high anxiety" type so he is glad he was not distracted by the beautiful fishes, when he was learning how to dive. The first time you dive, you will realize that underwater is an entirely different world. The fact that there were lesser distraction is good because the last thing you want, is to suffer from a panic attack 20 feets under!

In addition, he is more confident in diving and felt that he is well-prepared to dive in extreme conditions (because the visibility is terrible).

On the equipments, you should decide after you have clocked at least 10 dives in good visibility environment. After diving for 10 years, I can tell you that new equipments are released/updated regularly. If you plan to dive only once a year, then it might not be meaningful to spend $5K on equipments which is going to be old-fashioned quickly. However, if you plan to dive every other month, then you might really enjoy indulging on your own set of equipments.

[err yeah but]

While I'd wait a bit who cares if you don't have the new stuff.

Regs should last forever if serviced, bcs as well. Ok wesuits split (or maybe I got fat) but a diver head to toe in new stuff screams newbie, not my buddy.

Some places dms seem to take pride in how old their stuff is as it shows experience.

Each to their own I guess.

[my take]

My take on the issue of 'new equipment' is that the comment above was taken out of context or misinterpreted.

I don't think anyone was advocating getting all new stuff from head to toe. Nor was it an issue of buying stuff blindly. True, one should wait to know what one likes.

The point made (as I see it) was to, once you know what you like and prefer.... then don't go 'cheap' for certain pieces of equipment, specifically regarding the safety aspect of it.

Precisely for the fact that if you go bum stuff from XYZ you don't know how well it has been maintained or whatnot. When you are underwater its worth the piece of mind to know you got good stuff.

If you have mismatched fins or an old wetsuit who cares. I am talking life preservation type of equipment.

[londonlass]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply.  A lot of useful information and I agree with not scrimping on the safety stuff if we decide it's something we want to pursue.  I don't care about the aesthetics but do want to feel comfortable trusting that my equipment isn't going to fail once I'm in the depths!    

[a local diver]

Do not confine yourself to PADI certification, others like NAUI are simillar in standard.    Choose the dive school that pays attention to safety and your needs (close to child and minder) and where you feel most comfortable with.  Do not shop solely on price as some of these schools then to have low teacher to student ratios so it would be worth your while to make some enquires with the schools before you commit.

I did my NAUI certification in Manado 3 years ago with my daughters, then about 11 and 16 years old and because they were young, we had a teacher to student ratio of 1 to 2.  I think 1 to 4 is ok for adults. 

I do not think I am permitted to name specific schools but you might be able to google for some recommendations. 

You might also want to consider doing your open water dives in Batam.  It's a much easier trip than the overnighter to Dayang which by the way, is closed from Nov to March due to the NE Monsoons.  Batam's waters though not as good as Dayang or Manado, are clearer than Pulau Hantu and you can stay in a nice resort.  I think poor visibility is hazardous and not much fun.

Most schools will lend you the dive equiptment foc for at least your basic course.  All the easier to hook you into the hobby ;-) but really because not all take to the hobby and the dive schools understand that.  There's a wide range available and it would be wise to ask around, maybe try some of them during your lessons and see what the instructors and regulars are using. 

[my advice]

ive vertified hundreds of students innthe cold water if scandinavia and i can givevyou some advice.

buy a mask and a snorkel right away. maybe even fins. you will want that forbthe pool. make sure a dive shop helps you with the fitting to your face. kess volume of air between the glass and your face is better. before you use it the first time smear the inside of the glass of the mask with regukar toothpaste and let it sit for a minute or two. rinse it and clean out thebtoothpaste with regular water. this removes surface ouls and silica from the manufacturing process and will reduce the fogging of the mask.

for your c card id suggest you do ow only. not combined with advanced. do the theory and pool in singapore a week or two prior to going on holiday and doing open water part. id pick my padi center in lets say phuket etc and email them thatbyou would like to come and finish your c card with ow with their instructor. make sure they disclose all fees and if yoy need to do a pool checkup. make sure you know fees for equipment rental and boat fees if any. a shore dive is good enough for open water imho.

you qant your own mask because many nasty diseases soread via the nose and in this climate its better to have your own stuff,

once youve done the pool dive in singapore you know if this is for you or not.

for equipment id suggest consider a regulator and a weight integrated bcd (vest). dont go for the commando back plate stuff, just a regukar bcd. your regulator should have an acto or two secondary stages on it so you can share air with a buddy if required. get a mainstream brand morevfor serviceability when travelling than anything else. oceanic, mares, scubapro etc. you dont need a deep diving kit nor anything with heat exchanges etc. just a devent basic regulator with an easy breath (no labor to breathe, just open the mouth and air should come).  make sure there is an easy purge function. for a beginner id skip the adjustable reg flow regulator, just go
for something basic and mainstream.

for bcd just make sure its comfortable. weight integrated is really nice and worth the money.

from here you can consider things like a wetsuit, shorty if you are warm or full if you are cold by nature. i dive shorty but i have a few extra pounds of insulation naturally

fins, are really your choice but consider the style with booties. i have a ski style finstrap which is really comfortable, split fins go faster but cost more.

gloves, just use regular garden gloves and you will be fine.

finally you domt need a computer, but its nice to have. id suggest you start with a watch and just the regular pressure meter from the regulator first stage. should you really get intonit consider a wrist style computer then. an air integrated computer is a bit of risk since you cant dive if it runs out of batteries. air untegration doesnt really give youbthat much anyway,

i dive with a smallish knifevattach to my bcd airhose. its mostly there in case i get tangked in with some fishing line. its jit required but has been useful to me. get a blunt, flat, tipped knife, much less risk of accidental puncture wounds and it doubles as a crude screw driver.

finally, buy yourself the best divebag you can find, this is what you will use and roam through a lot and you need strong zippers which cand handle salt and sun. consider having a couple of pockets for masks fins etc, wheels or not is up to you. i like backpacks more than wheels myself.

good luck and dont forget to always make bubbles!

[to pp]

Overall good advice but I'd vary on a few things.

Backplates are much better than stab jackets.  Anyway, regardless, get one with sensible lift.  Assuming tropics rec diving you don't need something massive, 30ilbs ish is fine otherwise just bulk you don't need.

Wetsuit. I'd get a full suit, less for warmth, more protection against stingy stuff, ones with arm and leg zips are easier to put on or off.

Knife, don't bother. Shears are better (although for a knife you give good advice rather than some dumb rambo thing). Shears are better for cutting lines and do pretty much anything else a knife will do.

For reg brands I'd add apeks, super reliable and easily serviced here.

I would get a computer. Single day diving following dm (who will have a computer) ok, multiple days and different dms? You can guarantee they will have blown the table so...

Aow straight away, jury is out.

Anyway, personal preference mostly but good post.

[my advice]

fair points. backplate vs jacket style is more personal preference imho. wings could be a bit challenging to level for a beginner. either way i wouldnt recommend going hardcore with webbing and tech system such as gue. for a beginner i think its always better to keep it simple when you start out. 

if diving is something that the diver will do more than one day per year then the computer is a real nice addition.

i think 30 lbs is a useful range of lift in a bc. as a instructor i had a 90lb powerlift, but that was mostly in case i had to haul someone on the surface and wanted them really our of the water. to lift from depth you really dont need a ton of lift.

...and apeks is a good addition. decent and easy to service regs.

[Brain Reed]

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Do Keep Up The Good Work.