Can I survive on this offer?

[UDChris]

Hi,

From what I have seen on the blog I think I know the answer to this but I guess I need to nails in the coffin as for me it could almost be a dream job!

The offer is at an architectural firm, I have only a year of experience but have a master's degree and am studying for a PhD at one of the best schools in the world.

They have offered a 'local's' package of $3500pcm, they sort the visa, I am pretty sure they include insurance but NOTHING else (not even a flight!!!!)

Can I survive?


Thanks so much

Chris

[Old Mike]

Sure, you could survive. Just.
If they added accomodation.
If accomodation is not included you would have to rent a room in some flat. If you wanted anything approaching a comfortable lifestyle you would need twice that.

[$Pripps]

What you are getting is a local salary however since you are coming from abroad
it is comparing apples and oranges. Locals normally already have a cheap place to stay
but you will need to pay $$$ for that

[wake up]

jeez don't bother

[Baffled]

Why should anybody with a master's degree (not in sociology  ) and studying for a doctorate command such a low pay?  We pay A-level educated bookkeepers more than that.

[Yes]

OP, firstly, you need to ignore the previous two posters. It's clear that they know precisely FA about salary levels and the value of post grad qualifications in construction.

The answer to your first question is yes. As OM says, you can survive, but definitions of survival vary amongst expats.

The salary quoted is probably slightly more than a local graduate would get paid. The problem is:

(a) Your one year's experience is not going to get you a lot more than a graduate's salary level.
(b) The construction boom is over, particularly in the private sector. 2 years ago, the offer would have been substantially more. Now it's more competitive.
(c) Post graduate paper qualifications do not count for much without experience, i.e. they do not necessarily reflect your ability to do the job well.
(d) They don't need to pay more. Like the IT industry which has been flooded by cheap indian engineers, the Architectural firms employ cheaper Filipina architects to do a lot more than just drafting these days.
(e) They're probably not looking for the next Richard Rogers, they just need someone who can do the work. Prove that you're brilliant and the money will increase quickly.

You rarely get expatriate terms in construction here for any other than senior levels or specialised professions/sectors. At this stage of your career, your focus should be to gain more experience to support the extensive qualifications on your CV, so that you can command a much higher salary and have more options for the next job.

So I would suggest (as OM says), that you do push for a bit more for accommodation. You're not a local living with your parents and need some allowance for this.

Best of luck.

[Don't Do It]

This is a pathetically low salary. You will be miserable. It is simply not worth it and would be career suicide. Search for employment elsewhere. No amount of experience would be worth wasting several years of your life here when you could be advancing your career elsewhere. Shame on the potential employers for their paltry offer.

[Lester25]

I would have to agree on the above. Whilst the offer might be consistent with other local junior architects with one year experience get, for an expat with no local ties and nowhere to live life would be a mighty struggle. You'd be resorting to flat sharing etc which might be okay in your 20's but is certainly not for everyone.

You also have to remember all the set-up costs you will incur - flights, temporary accommodation, deposits on accommodation, utilities, etc plus all the odds and sods that you have to buy when you move to a new country. If they are not even offering to pay for your flights there's no way I could advise that you accept it.

[ohnooh no]

A mugs salary and that's it.

[Culture Too]

One thing we tend to forget to mention in such situations is that a "local contract" has many more implications than simply financial.  If the company are paying on local terms it is highly likely that their corporate culture is more suited to employing a local.  That would have a huge impact on your daily life and I think that the level of frustration would be enormous!  All too often a small company will take an expat for what was initially intended to be a local position because they believe that a Foreign Talent will add prestige.  In real terms, however, they have not thought through how they will integrate practices or manage expectations.  This sounds like one of those cases in which case you should avoid it.

[Hey Chris]

No! 

Double that offer and you're getting somewhere...but if you take $3500 you'd be lucky to get a 5% lift after 12 months.  Local rates means when it comes to "negotiating" a pay rise you'll only get what the rest of the locals get...if that.  In other words they have you by the lum pah!

Don't let the dream become a nightmare...negotiate or walk away.

[dont take it]

Agree with last poster, people like pripps though are rather dumb.

If you have talents they can't hire here, fine negotiate hard. If you were the top pick with a load of locals otherwise then much less choice.

The fact it costs you more to live here than a local is your problem not the employers, they pay you to do a job and pay the going rate. If they are lowballing then one thing, if they are offering going rate and merely hard for you to live off then there is no reason to offer more and its down to you to decide.

I doubt people like pripps would think if I went to ny or wherever they are from I should get paid double plus housing and home leave as a european just because its not home.

[Cairnhill]

To have a balanced picture, you have to consider several areas.

1) Salary: What kind of salary can you expect to receive, in your home country, based on your qualification (after taxes)? Is it significantly more than SGD$3,500? Significantly less? Or about the same?
> If you can earn significantly more than SGD$3.5K back home, it might be worth gathering some experiences before coming to Singapore. If it is impossible for you to get a job back home (I have an architect friend, graduated from Harvard, who was retrenched and has remained jobless for 1 year in San Fran.) and this is your only offer, then you might want to seriously consider this.

2) Accommodation: What is your current accommodation situation? Are you staying at home? Staying alone or flat-sharing?
> If you are staying alone, then you need to evaluate if you are comfortable flat-sharing. There are a lot of foreigners in Singapore who flat-share in their initial years of working here. If you are already doing that back home, it shouldn't matter much for you to do the same here.

3) Personal experience: What is your key pull factor, in your consideration of a job/position? Is it salary? Company reputation? Or experience to work overseas?
> If there is little differences in above (1) & (2), then the experience to work overseas might be invaluable. I agree with poster "Culture Too". This company might have made an offer to you, without sufficient experience of having someone from an entirely different background/culture working in the organization. A friend of mine working in a German company still complains about her HR's lack of experience in dealing with expats and compensation package, after working here for 3 years. If your objective is to gather a couple of years of experience and am willing to potentially suffer some hardship, then go for it. Otherwise, you might be better off staying where you are.

[get real fella]

What the job pays at home is irrelevant. It may influence whether you wish to move but in terms of what you should get here it is meaningless.  Don't listen to expat wives who are mostly clueless.

You get paid for the job, check if it is market rate, the days of being given plane tickets and a condo because you are foreign are gone (certainly at your level).

That said, it will be very hard on that pay, possible but hard. Also one thing to think about, employee protection is basically zero, you need to have enough stuck by in case the worst happens and you need to repatriate yourself.

If it works though then go for it, one is experience for yourself, second is it will look good on your cv.

[Money or Experience]

You would do well to listen to the constructive comments on this page and truly ignore the others who rule it out straight off.  The good replies are spot on for you, and you know which ones these are.

I agree with 'yes' in that you should also consider the experience a job here will land you - this what you really earn besides salary. Architecture in Singapore is great - I work as an EIA consultant so understand construction and love architecture too - and boundaries are pushed with each new trophy building.

Just take a look at the Marina Bay Sands Resort highest cantilever roof, with swimming pool and bar on the top; not to mention the boat rides within the shopping mall downstairs. As you see it is a bit of a playground for architects - to the headache of engineers!  There is also a good movement toward sustainable buildings via the BCA Green Mark scheme.

The other great benefit here, compared e.g. to the UK, is things get built quickly - the planning process is streamlined to get things done. There is no public consultation on what gets built so no lengthy delays to make the NIMBYs happy.  Also, it means projects are usually rushed at breakneck speed and this is stressful to say the least. Quality can suffer for the speed.  However, you learn all about the pros / cons of public freedom of speech and working in a developing country if you come - experiences you ll never get at home but may also affect you if you're not cut out for them.

good luck with what ever you decide.