MAS admit they have screwed the SG Property market.

[Mr Affordability]

A local guy bought the condo next door to mine nine months ago, then spent a month (and I imagine great expense) renovating it. For the last seven months there have been a few people looking around it with an agent, but so far, nobody has rented it. I know there are a couple of similar empty units on the other floors. Is this representative of the entire market? If so, does it signal troubled times ahead? It's not exactly rocket science, and it comes down to one key measure: affordability. If this condo was bought with spare cash; if a lot of the private properties are bought by wealthy Asians parking money here; if locals are upgrading (taking on a bit more debt that they can comfortably service even with 2-3% higher rates) then it is unlikely a crash will happen because the economy is pretty strong, the future looks bright and people should be holding down jobs and paying off their loans.
If, on the other hand, a lot of people have leveraged up and bought these condos as investments (in the hope of making a killing on asset inflation) that then require rent to service big mortgages, it could/may well become a problem if the rental market is too soft. Are there enough people coming to Singapore able (and willing) to pay $5-10k a month in rent (assuming this is the average rental required to service a $1m mortgage)?
My personal view: no. A lot of foreign workers are not in that wage bracket. The only mechanism for this to work is if those foreigners pay for the HDB that allows the local to upgrade. But that is a house of cards, in my view.  

[did happen]

"...Vulcan.......what is a massive crash?..."

Decline of 20% or more

Happened in 2008 through 2009 in case you missed it. PPI dropped from 180 down to 130 - close to 30% drop.


Of course it's rebounded since but to say there has been no crash by your own definition is a little bit erm...... wrong?

Or have you added some non specified time dimension to this 20%?

[if kubes gets his way]

And rates go up to around 5pc it won't be a 20 percent crash it will be 70 or 80.

That said, it just won't happen, govt is backed in a corner and doesnt have the balls.

I reckon a slow slide of 20-30 but over 3 or 4 years.

[Admitit]

Quote
Analysts said the Singapore government's move is aimed at preserving SANITY in the property market by boosting supply......CNA Teletext
Unquote
The above is in regard to govt's land sales programme announced recently.
So it would appear that it is somewhat acknowledged that there is madness in the property market.

[Vulcanl]

Admitit,

"...Happened in 2008 through 2009 in case you missed it. PPI dropped from 180 down to 130 - close to 30% drop.

Of course it's rebounded since but to say there has been no crash by your own definition is a little bit erm...... wrong?

Or have you added some non specified time dimension to this 20%?..."

Thanks for the clarification.  Private was indeed down that much.  HDB was not (that is what I am more interested in and therefore what I tend to focus on). 

All the same, that particular private property decline was caused by external factors that Singapore could not have possibly shielded itself against and more specifically re: Kubes' prediction, the cause was the GFC and not what Kubes was babbling on about at the time (something about excess GSS supply or some other nonsense).

He's been a chicken little about SG property before and since, and like I said, even a broken clock is right at least twice every day.  He was bailed out by the GFC that year.

"...So it would appear that it is somewhat acknowledged that there is madness in the property market..."

I don't think that anyone is disputing this.  It needs to be said, however that this madness has been observed in just about every major city in the World this decade so far.  The problem is not unique to Singapore and therefore to single out the SG Gov't is not exactly fair

[Dr. Phil]

Doc, FTAs are like democracy.  They can be painful, there are winners and losers, and there are alternatives.  But for all the negatives, they are better than anything else.

Kubes, FTA's are not like democracy.
In fact they have little to do with Free Trade.
They create a Limited Trading Cabal and the small and needy nations are excluded.
They benefit only MNCs.

Do you think the people would willingly vote to abandon all border controls and import tariffs, a valuable source of revenue, to allow MNCs to benefit by selling cheap toxic goods which destroy wholesale domestic jobs and training turning skilled men and women into welfare cases? Do you seriously think people voted for this?
Please do not tell me it is the price for peace.... whose peace?
This is another convenient fiction, like global warming, multi-culturalism....

And the situation will not get better, only worse.

The reaction is slow, but it is emerging; in UK a recent poll indicated 99% wanted to exit the European Union. 

[Bonkersxxx]

There is no denying that there is a streak of madness running through the whole world caused by greed and it is the duty of governments all over the world to treat their citizens of this illness before it become more widespread. We can only hope that those officials are not in cahoots with the builders/developers/bankers who are only interested in enriching themselves as is happening in some countries. Let there be a ministry to handle the curbing and growth of greed amongst it's citizens. Hahahaha

[FATED]

Yes, underlying the developments in the property circus, the bigger and glaring picture that emerge is clearly the growth of naked greed. And self-centredness and anxieties and wasted energies focussing on gains and yet more gains, everything unhealthy. More and more people are drawn into it. Escalating property prices affects and inflates costs of living, creates a class divide, envy leading to eventual enmity, inevitably it will affect and erode the social fabric and equilibrium in society. Needless to say, ethics and fairplay and concern for others and spiritualism and moderateness does not factor in this craze to double your monies or get left behind syndrome. It is definitely not in the vocabulary of especially the dehumanized bankers and developers, the main culprits. The chaotic financial position of countries are mainly caused by upheavals in  their property markets. It is deteriorating in just the same manner as the inability of governments in tackling disastrous climate issues. Apparently there are not many genuine, truly sincere and effective leaders who can address the issues.

[Bonkersxxx]

Fated.....thank you for that diversion on the benefits of bananas. Was this deliberate? Haha Didn't know that this fruit could calm nerves. Need that during this trying property crazy times. One point though , something need to be done about this growing madness to live of speculation using the property casino and not by the sweat of one's brow.

[Agent007]

Seems like there's not many property investors around here but a lot of do-gooders. Go hug an effing tree!

[David can]

Yes, underlying the developments in the property circus, the bigger and glaring picture that emerge is clearly the growth of naked greed. And self-centredness and anxieties and wasted energies focussing on gains and yet more gains, everything unhealthy. More and more people are drawn into it. Escalating property prices affects and inflates costs of living, creates a class divide, envy leading to eventual enmity, inevitably it will affect and erode the social fabric and equilibrium in society. Needless to say, ethics and fairplay and concern for others and spiritualism and moderateness does not factor in this craze to double your monies or get left behind syndrome. It is definitely not in the vocabulary of especially the dehumanized bankers and developers, the main culprits. The chaotic financial position of countries are mainly caused by upheavals in  their property markets. It is deteriorating in just the same manner as the inability of governments in tackling disastrous climate issues. Apparently there are not many genuine, truly sincere and effective leaders who can address the issues.

In the UK, David Cameron at least has got some guts to stand up and say enough is enough.  The softly softly labour days are gone.  It may take him a few years to sort out the mess labour left behind though.  Thats a leader with real guts in my book.

[Dr. Phil]

We can regret the greed which exists in such abundance today but let us not be distracted and blame what is really a natural desire.
I have no desire to attack greed.
Greed is a symptom of our economic problems, it is not the proximate cause.

Even with sub-prime, greed was one contributing factor, but the whole sub-prime would never have happened if regulations and controls had existed or been enforced.
We still have not remedied this deficiency; there appears to be no political will, desire or understanding or, MNCs have a far longer and deeper reach than we hitherto imagined.
 
With respect to existing economic woes, the greatest being joblessness, we can certainly identify FTAs as the proximate cause and the liability rests upon the shoulders of politicians who, either enter into FTAs without the full and express approval of citizens briefed accurately on the inevitable consequences, or fail to exit these FTAs when the inevitable damage is clear for all to see.

The harmful effects of FTAs, casting away tried and tested measures designed over centuries to protect ones domestic economy, raise revenue, protect domestic jobs etc, without unduly hurting international trade and our competitiveness, is similar to living off debt.
And that penny has surely dropped for many today.   

[FromAspeculatorWithLove]

Thank you MAS.

Without you, we speculators are nothing.

[Agent007]

Looks like higher end is taking off again as planned. Dont miss this golden opportunity! Don't miss the boat and end up bitter and twisted like Kubes.

[agent disliker]

Looks like higher end is taking off again as planned. Dont miss this golden opportunity! Don't miss the boat and end up bitter and twisted like Kubes.

Or worse, end up in negative equity and have to declare yourself bankrupt.  Twat.