Considering a move to Singapore

[neckless necklace]

The fact of the matter is that it is not too intelligent to call your host lazy, etc etc. It is obvious that if you guys are really the trashy expats that you claim to be, your answers clearly prove my point(s). Your a bunch of idiots!   

Your or You're? You see charles, not only do we have to show singaporeans how to work effectively and stop taking 'MC' every day, we have to show them how to write too.

Mr A ... this is the same error I often see among Westerner native-speakers of the Eng lang too, be they young children or adults.

You imagine only SG locals make sp and grammar errors? It merely depends on how well effective your teachers/parents were about instilling habits early on.

Neckless ....  I opened the ad wondering what kind of dress it was ... and on further reading, turns out the (Western) poster actually meant necklace! 

[Charles Windsor]

Have you ever marked/read a college paper in a American University. I can tell you, to the best of my recolloection, it was no easy reading!. Why? They cannot write well or give expression to what's in their minds unless it involves drugs, sex and drinking. Those that can, are snobbish about their abilities, which frankly, are just about above average. In fact, native speakers do not have a better command of english than no native speakers. 

[Blaze]

Have you ever marked/read a college paper in a American University. I can tell you, to the best of my recolloection, it was no easy reading!. Why? They cannot write well or give expression to what's in their minds unless it involves drugs, sex and drinking. Those that can, are snobbish about their abilities, which frankly, are just about above average. In fact, native speakers do not have a better command of english than no native speakers. 

American native English speakers... 

[Your American Eng Tutor]

"Have you ever marked/read a college paper in a American University."

YAET: Words that begin with vowels have 'an' applied, those beginning with consonants use 'a' so, for extra credit, is 'A' a vowel or a consonant?  Also, this sentence should end with a question mark because, well, it's a question.  
Get it? <question>
I hope so. <declarative statement>

"I can tell you, to the best of my recolloection, it was no easy reading!."

YAET:  You spelled 'recollection' incorrectly, obviously.  Plus, you again have a problem with the punctuation at the end of the sentence.  Above, you chose the wrong one.  But here, you've used more than one.
In the future, remember that only one is allowed ok?  Though I suppose ending all sentences with '.!?' would seem to cover all bases, that's just not how it's done unfortunately.

"Why? They cannot write well or give expression to what's in their minds unless it involves drugs, sex and drinking."

YAET:  The best so far, though the phrase 'give expression' would be best replaced with the verb 'express' for brevity and clarity.  Also, using 'and/or' at the end would probably be closer to your intended meaning.  Presumably, they can express themselves about any of these topics individually, not only in conjunction with each other.

"Those that can, are snobbish about their abilities, which frankly, are just about above average. In fact, native speakers do not have a better command of english than no native speakers."

YAET:  You were doing so well...then you wrote this.  The commas in the first sentence should be after 'which' and 'frankly'.  In the second sentence, you should capitalize 'English' and I'll charitably give you the benefit of the doubt about 'no native speakers' and assume the missing 'n' was a typo.

Grade: C-, but you can up that to a C if you get the extra credit correct.

Lesson: Don't write posts complaning about langauge skills when you yourself are only marginally literate.

Signed,

Your American English Teacher

[$Pripps]

I am in total agreement with your views. Mocking others by pointing out language issues clearly supports your case IN POINT. These persons are expat trash and very clearly are anal and arrogant. If they feel that way,they should leave SG now and not wait any longer. These f**king losers should really really leave and don't ever ever return back to Asia forever.         

fixed that for you 

[Just Another Local]

My husband is looking to transfer to Singapore this year, with myself and our 2 very young children in tow.  Seems to be a great opportunity, one too good to miss.  I've heard that the lifestyle is great but am concerned about the cost of living versus my husband's potential salary (S$100-120k).  I take it Singapore is very expensive (rent, food, school), certainly more than I anticipated.  Can anyone give me advice on how much day to day living is, rough ball park figures really.  I just need to get my head around 1 person supporting us all.  I just want us to be able to live comfortably, be able to visit family once a year and be able to keep a house back in the UK.

Hi, I'm a local and just want to share my personal experience. I'm on a household income of just over SGD 300k p.a., and I can only afford to live in a small 3 bedroom condo in a pleasant but unfashionable suburb far from downtown, drive a 5yr old Japanese car (my wife drives it, I take the bus), have just one humble club membership, don't play golf, and all my 3 kids go to public schools. That is all I can reasonably afford. It's a comfortable lifestyle, but not lavish nor trendy. Honestly, I have difficulty wrapping my mind over how my fellow countrymen or expats can afford to live in swanky D9 to D11, drive Mercedes and BMWs, put their kids in $25k a year schools, play golf every weekend, and hit the bars several times a week. Given the way Singaporeans live their lives, I could have sworn the median household income of Singaporeans is well over SGD 1M, and maybe it is and the statistics are wrong.

I would say that if your package is only $300k, all in, you would be better off staying where you are, or you may be disappointed. Just my opinion. I spent several years in Monterey, CA and even though I was paid significantly less than what I get now, life was a lot easier. Where cost of living is concerned, I think Singapore is pretty much right up there among the most expensive cities in the world, bar the overheating ones like Moscow and Shanghai. It is strange that the most expensive cities these days are in developing or 3rd world countries.

[LA Gal]

Hi PP

Your 300k p.a and your self-described lifestyle doesn't add up for me.....unless you're putting away at least half of that money into savings, it doesn't seem to compute...can you enlighten us with a breakdown?

[Just Another Local]

Hi LA Gal,

I do save a significant portion of my earnings, but when you have 3 young children and given the cost of living and education, $300k doesn't look like much. I know that public schools here are very affordable, not to mention good, but what most people don't see is that enrichment classes and tuition for children run into the thousands each month.  I wasn't keen to put my kids through tuition and enrichment classes as it takes away the fun of being children, but I realized that I don't have a choice. Peer pressure and constant goading from my children's school would make sure that I fall in line and become a typical "responsible" parent, and feed the billion dollar tuition industry here. Utilities and groceries run into the thousands each month, which I believe is normal for a household of this size. Running a car isn't cheap either. Then there are other fixed commitments like condo fees, personal taxes, insurance premiums and so on. Which is why I can't seem to understand how some of my fellow colleagues on similar packages can afford to drive a $250k car (and a $160k van for the wifey), and change up every two years, or purchase an apartment for over $2m (which is not much these days). I know I can't afford to do that and still have my children's college education and my retiremnt taken care off.  I also don't believe in debt and as of now, I have no debt and rather unwillingly to take on any in the future. My experience is that debt simply ties you to spinning the corporate wheel. I want to have the flexibility of spinning my own wheel and owning a business one day. With 30 year mortgages, car loans, an exhausted CPF, and a family of five to feed, there is no way this is going to happen. To be honest, given the cost of living here, I actually think that my government should be ashamed of the income data published, rather than be proud of it. Compared to West and Central Africa, we are doing rather well, but if seen in the context of Singapore itself, it is just ok.

[Still doesn't]

add up, when you say your kids are in local school, your condo is in an unfashionable area and your car is 5 years old. You also say that you save a significant portion of your income, which is entirely contrary to your point.

It would be good if you gave a monthly expenses breakdown.

I have a similar income, so I don't buy what your saying.

PS. Please break up your posts into paragraphs.

[SAE]

add up, when you say your kids are in local school, your condo is in an unfashionable area and your car is 5 years old. You also say that you save a significant portion of your income, which is entirely contrary to your point.

It would be good if you gave a monthly expenses breakdown.

I have a similar income, so I don't buy what your saying.

PS. Please break up your posts into paragraphs.

Stop being pedantic.  The guy was trying to give some advice and was being very nice about it, what is your problem?  He has openly admitted that he saves a good proportion of his income so that he does not live in debt and his children will be able to afford a good tertiary education in the future - why do you need more detail?  My husband earns extremely well yet we live very frugally so that we can do the same - its not easy in Singapore to live well, have fun, see the region as well as save for your and your children's future .  Yet I know many expats who spend all their basic salary, their COLA and still go into debt by living the expat lifestyle.  Its all about choices and expectations. 

[Just Another Local]

add up, when you say your kids are in local school, your condo is in an unfashionable area and your car is 5 years old. You also say that you save a significant portion of your income, which is entirely contrary to your point.

It would be good if you gave a monthly expenses breakdown.

I have a similar income, so I don't buy what your saying.

PS. Please break up your posts into paragraphs.

Hi, I think it wouldn't be appropriate for me to reveal my spending pattern on a public forum. Anyway, I don't really keep track of it. All I know is that if I am prudent with my spending, I will never overspend. It's only when I have big expenditures that I pay a little more attention to my expenses, but then again, because I don't have a lavish lifestyle, I never really have to worry too much. For example, if I have to take my family of five to visit relatives and friends for a couple of weeks in California, I don't really have to see if I can afford to do so, even if it often run into tens of thousands for a single trip.

Perhaps we are not talking about the same thing? My household income is about $300k and this include bonuses. My company's payment policy is quite predictable so it doesn't vary too much from it. Perhaps your $300k income is just the basic, and your other perks and bonuses put another $300k in your wallet? If that is so, we are not in the same income bracket. I am a local on an ordinary local package, so I have to pay for everything. If you merely consider a simple back of envelope calculation, $300k certainly doesn't go that far if you want to live the good life and still put your kids through private school. If I put all my kids in private schools, that would be about $70k straight up, without even considering their personal expenses. Then there is tuition, dance lesson, swim lesson, gymnastics, music and singing...none of them are cheap in any sense of the word. There are various taxes to be paid and insurance premiums as well. Owning a car isn't cheap here either. Annual expenses can be pretty hefty, and especially the maintenance cost for running an older car isn't trivial.

I haven't got any debt or mortgage but it didn't happen this way by chance. It was years of a disciplined lifestyle and a commitment not to take on too much personal debt. Maybe I can live the "good life" now, but I never had it and thus, never missed it and I don't see the need for it. Between playing golf and hitting the gym and do squats and deadlifts, I prefer the latter.

Seriously, if you want to secure a comfortable lifestyle post-retirement and giving your children a headstart in life, $300k is a good package to work with, but it still isn't a ticket to a lavish lifestyle of BMWs, swanky condo in an expensive neighbourhood, Cartier, Dom Perignon and fancy Mardi Gras parties. At least that is from experience. I had an expensive apartment in Orchard Road, but the mortgage soaked up so much of my income that I traded it down for my present humble condo in the suburbs, and I've never once missed the glitz of downtown. The piece of mind that comes with knowing that I have no fear of ever losing my job is worth giving up the finer (material) things in life. As a matter of fact, I took my family to live in California for several years to be close to my relatives there, and we never had to take on a job to make ends meet. Whatever little that we got from freelance consultancy work was good enough for us to offset our expenses there. It was my definition of a good life...simple, uncomplicated and lots of family activities and vacations.

In a nutshell, if one expects to live like a millionaire on a $300k income and still save for retirement and children's education, they may have to rethink their priorities because you can't do both.

[Absolute Tosh]

"In a nutshell, if one expects to live like a millionaire on a $300k income and still save for retirement and children's education, they may have to rethink their priorities because you can't do both."

I get less, fly biz or first class and eat where I like - I pity your kids

[To just another local]

add up, when you say your kids are in local school, your condo is in an unfashionable area and your car is 5 years old. You also say that you save a significant portion of your income, which is entirely contrary to your point.

It would be good if you gave a monthly expenses breakdown.

I have a similar income, so I don't buy what your saying.

PS. Please break up your posts into paragraphs.

Hi, I think it wouldn't be appropriate for me to reveal my spending pattern on a public forum. Anyway, I don't really keep track of it. All I know is that if I am prudent with my spending, I will never overspend. It's only when I have big expenditures that I pay a little more attention to my expenses, but then again, because I don't have a lavish lifestyle, I never really have to worry too much. For example, if I have to take my family of five to visit relatives and friends for a couple of weeks in California, I don't really have to see if I can afford to do so, even if it often run into tens of thousands for a single trip.

Perhaps we are not talking about the same thing? My household income is about $300k and this include bonuses. My company's payment policy is quite predictable so it doesn't vary too much from it. Perhaps your $300k income is just the basic, and your other perks and bonuses put another $300k in your wallet? If that is so, we are not in the same income bracket. I am a local on an ordinary local package, so I have to pay for everything. If you merely consider a simple back of envelope calculation, $300k certainly doesn't go that far if you want to live the good life and still put your kids through private school. If I put all my kids in private schools, that would be about $70k straight up, without even considering their personal expenses. Then there is tuition, dance lesson, swim lesson, gymnastics, music and singing...none of them are cheap in any sense of the word. There are various taxes to be paid and insurance premiums as well. Owning a car isn't cheap here either. Annual expenses can be pretty hefty, and especially the maintenance cost for running an older car isn't trivial.

I haven't got any debt or mortgage but it didn't happen this way by chance. It was years of a disciplined lifestyle and a commitment not to take on too much personal debt. Maybe I can live the "good life" now, but I never had it and thus, never missed it and I don't see the need for it. Between playing golf and hitting the gym and do squats and deadlifts, I prefer the latter.

Seriously, if you want to secure a comfortable lifestyle post-retirement and giving your children a headstart in life, $300k is a good package to work with, but it still isn't a ticket to a lavish lifestyle of BMWs, swanky condo in an expensive neighbourhood, Cartier, Dom Perignon and fancy Mardi Gras parties. At least that is from experience. I had an expensive apartment in Orchard Road, but the mortgage soaked up so much of my income that I traded it down for my present humble condo in the suburbs, and I've never once missed the glitz of downtown. The piece of mind that comes with knowing that I have no fear of ever losing my job is worth giving up the finer (material) things in life. As a matter of fact, I took my family to live in California for several years to be close to my relatives there, and we never had to take on a job to make ends meet. Whatever little that we got from freelance consultancy work was good enough for us to offset our expenses there. It was my definition of a good life...simple, uncomplicated and lots of family activities and vacations.

In a nutshell, if one expects to live like a millionaire on a $300k income and still save for retirement and children's education, they may have to rethink their priorities because you can't do both.

You DO NOT live a simple life my friend! You own a condo WITHOUT a mortgage, you don't have to worry about taking the family of five on an overseas trip that may cost several thousands, you lived in California without taking up a job (assuming you used your savings).

Glitzy? Maybe not, but certainly a very good lifestyle, A BMW doesn't make a life glamourous! Me thinks you have forgotten that 300K is quite a lot of money. A bit humble pie is in order.

[Just Another Local...]

To the last two posters,

I'm sorry if I have offended in anyway with my comments. Honestly, I still can't imagine how I can frequent fly first or business class on this salary, unless it's on the company account. My company is pretty prudent. I still fly economy after all these years, and I've only ever flown on business class once.

I don't make $300k a year. It's a combined household income, ie, it includes my wife's income, and this is apparently reasonably common. Most of my friends take home much more than that, or at least their lifestyle seem to suggest that. I would imagine that most board members here would quite easily make twice this amount or much more. I don't see how I came across as arrogant. I take the bus to work everyday and live just like any other ordinary person. My kids live well too, in a simple, uncomplicated way. It doesn't take a lot to make them happy...they just want to spend quality time with my wife and I, and it doesn't have to cost an arm and leg to do so. I'm not a miserly person either. I just don't think that $300k is enough if you intend to blow $18k each month on renting a 2000 square foot place in town, drive a $250k car and another $170k van for the wife, put 3 kids in private school at $70k or so, put them in enrichment classes that cost a couple of thousand dollars each month etc. and still have enough left over to save for your children's college, purchase health insurance etc. $300k is a good salary, but it doesn't go very far here in Singapore. Would someone used to having 3 cars and a 3,000 square foot home back in their country settle for a 1200 square foot apartment, drive a small unremarkable car, and put their children in public schools here? Some would but I would imagine that many will think hard about it. I think Singapore is a great place, but I would advise those coming here to temper their expectations. Unless you are offered at least half a million in total compensation and benefits, I think it would be hard to live a fancy and lavish lifestyle.

[On local package]

Let's see how mine sums up:

$350K basic annual income (me and my wife)
less:
$60K  condo rent in east coast
$50K  int'l and local school fees + enrichment for my 3 kids as (no issues why or who's going to which school)
$18K  maid expenses (2 maids -- working wife/kids are below 12 yrs old)
$16K  insurance (life and non-life)
$15K  amortization for continental car (5 yr-loan)
$15K  food and other grocery items
$10K  utilities, cable and internet
$6K   petrol and cash card
-----
$190K total estimated "fixed" costs

$160K left for savings, holidays and weekly entertainment

Of course, there needs to be some provision for income tax but note that the $350K still does not include our bonuses -- and these will be more than enough to cover the tax. Hence, I reckon that we are able to play with $200K for savings, holiday and entertainment. I believe this is comfortable -- but can be lavish if very small is left for savings.