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ExpatSingapore Message Board 28 May 2012, 3:58:20 am *
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Author Topic: Near-Zero Interest Rates  (Read 14787 times)
P.O.D.
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« on: 25 May 2011, 8:51:30 am »
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With double-digit inflation and near zero interest rates my saving are being stolen.

With every day my wealth in real terms diminishes. Cry

Who is profiting and when will it end?

This is not just a Singapore bank practice, its a global .conspiracy.  Shocked

Are we all being kept in a fearful and submissive state, accepting without question, banking practices which would have caused outrage 10 years ago?

A combination of near zero interest rates and outrageous banking charges, including restrictive currency exchanges, is making billions for banks.

When will they be satisfied?  Angry
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« on: 25 May 2011, 8:51:30 am »
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Kubess.sg
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« Reply #1 on: 25 May 2011, 9:01:48 am »
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More fool you for leaving your money in the bank.

If you want to sit and watch it evaporate that's your problem.
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buy property
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« Reply #2 on: 25 May 2011, 9:42:11 am »
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You just proved the adage - a pod and his money are soon parted...........
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Kubes.SG
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« Reply #3 on: 25 May 2011, 10:18:58 am »
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POD, we are at last find a point on agreement.  If you accept the primary economic indicators in Singapore, there is no way that the interest rates should be held so low by the MAS.  This "free money" results in wasted and inefficent allocation of capital (speculation and bubble formation) which leads to higher inflation rates and reduced protection from external economic threats.  The overall impact is disastrous for nearly everyone, but especially for the regular population who see their savings eroding, opportunities for better housing getting out of reach.

Instead the MAS should push up interest rates. This will reduce speculation, redirect capital into productive industries/investments and allow people to plan for future economic well being.  The challenge is that this free-money has resulted in SG citizens carrying the highest personal debt on the planet, as they spend 16 times their annual income on basic housing, and 3 times on a car.  Just insane.

SG is a house of cards built on massive debt.
« Last Edit: 25 May 2011, 10:31:28 am by BoardManager » Logged

The object in life is not to be on the side of the Majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the Insane.
TheWrathOfGrapes
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« Reply #4 on: 25 May 2011, 11:03:34 am »
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SG is a house of cards built on massive debt.

Weird you should say that, as there are some rumblings that you would be going to some rice-paper house built on an even more massive debt and property bubble that lasted more than 22 years.

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Weird you should say that, as there are some rumblings that Japan may again be home for the Kubes household, this time with Kublets.
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Vulcanl
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« Reply #5 on: 25 May 2011, 13:51:41 pm »
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Kubes dedicated an entire thread to this specious argument (that SG should raise interest rates):

http://www.expatsingapore.com/forum/index.php/topic,66396.0.html

As usual, when challenged on the facts (that this is not a SG-only problem, and that Australia itself is ALSO grappling with it) he zips up and lies low until (he thinks) the issue is forgotten.

How's about it, Kubes, for ONCE - respond to the counter (argument)?

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Dr. Phil
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« Reply #6 on: 25 May 2011, 16:01:51 pm »
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Debt, whether national or domestic (household) threatens our future and our children's future and it feels like I have been banging this drum for ever, asking where such cheap money came from and attributing its harmful inflationary and social effects especially on property prices and the welfare and development of community.

Now we have nations and households heavily indebted and interest rate increases could be tantamount to shaking the tree; we know many households will fall but it is inevitable and however serious the problem it will not bury us. After the sub-prime fraud, banks were bailed out with sums that exceeded the value of all of the dodgy mortgages; taxpayers paid for all of these homes. And yet the money went into a black hole and bank vaults remain empty. And the mortgagees are still in debt to the mortgagors; their debts were not expunged.  Huh
So we can deal with negative equity if we have to.

We must bite the bullet, control our fears and take the initiative from domineering banks and financial institutions. Banks know politicians are too weak and will fear the consequences of what they have been told will be a financial armageddon.
I say, we must do it, the sooner the better.

Interest rates will give confidence in a currency and of course make imports cheaper. A strong currency will also attract overseas investment and savings. Salaries will be worth more and prices and inflation should fall.
Singapore could benefit far more than the majority of countries from interest rate increases.

Whatever the circumstances, there always be those who benefit. For so long it has most certainly not been the savers or the general public who have, in real terms, gotten poorer daily; and what is most worrying is the gap between rich and poor is in excess of anything we have previously known and is increasing.

Banks, like many corporations, have been hijacked by b o a r d s of directors who now dictate to shareholders. They write their own outrageous contracts and bonuses whether the company makes profits or losses. A recent study said the ratio of directors to employees salaries will soon reach 270:1.

Governments should protect our savings by whatever means are appropriate.

Nations are "owned" by all citizens. Citizens dictate the rules, its their playing field or market place and when a tiny minority manipulate to defraud the majority, their license to operate should be revoked.  Shocked

And when our market place is flooded with cheap toxic cr@p from outside our borders, causing deep structural unemployment, we should close our borders to imports in excess of agreed quotas which do not threaten domestic employment. This is life, its not a game.  Angry
MNC's who are playing away may lose, it was their choice to migrate.
« Last Edit: 25 May 2011, 16:06:52 pm by Dr. Phil » Logged
so what
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« Reply #7 on: 25 May 2011, 17:17:19 pm »
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Dr Phil,

Debt has been (and still is) the driving force behind economies.
Having no debt may actually be more harmful to the economy.

By having debts and having others endebted to them, empires have risen and empires have fallen.
The ancient Romans argued exactly as you did, and taxes were imposed on all people, in particular the rich.

And once the rich minority was rendered powerless...Rome fell.
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Vulcanl
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« Reply #8 on: 25 May 2011, 17:20:11 pm »
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so what,

"...Having no debt may actually be more harmful to the economy..."

Please explain
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so what
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« Reply #9 on: 25 May 2011, 17:44:59 pm »
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so what,

"...Having no debt may actually be more harmful to the economy..."

Please explain

How did you pay for your house?
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Vulcanl
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« Reply #10 on: 25 May 2011, 18:13:34 pm »
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"...How did you pay for your house?..."

A mortgage is a necessary evil , which is a different thing from its inexistence being harmful

Please explain how the lack of debt can be 'harmful to the economy'
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No debt?
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« Reply #11 on: 25 May 2011, 18:29:56 pm »
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"...How did you pay for your house?..."

A mortgage is a necessary evil , which is a different thing from its inexistence being harmful

Please explain how the lack of debt can be 'harmful to the economy'

Without debt, the economy could not have expanded as rapidly as it has done since the industrial revolution.  No debt, no growth.
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Vulcanl
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« Reply #12 on: 25 May 2011, 19:21:10 pm »
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"...expanded as rapidly..."

These are the operative words....there would still have been an expansion without debt...just not as 'fast'
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Dr. Phil
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« Reply #13 on: 25 May 2011, 19:52:01 pm »
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Dr Phil,

Debt has been (and still is) the driving force behind economies.
Having no debt may actually be more harmful to the economy.

By having debts and having others endebted to them, empires have risen and empires have fallen.
The ancient Romans argued exactly as you did, and taxes were imposed on all people, in particular the rich.

And once the rich minority was rendered powerless...Rome fell.

I don't agree. The problem today is that most debt is unsecured.

Confidence facilitates trade; confidence in currency, national and international political and social stability, trading partners etc.

Terms of Trade are important. Credit, not debt facilitates trade.

For sure international trade flourished and became less speculative when insurance became available and merchants gained confidence and did not have to travel with their goods.

Also banking practices, documentary credit system, common laws governing contracts (sale, carriage, insurance) etc.

Its common sense that debt or leverage is only useful if your cash can generate greater returns elsewhere ie. If you invest in property and rental yields are higher than interest repayments on mortgage loans then by all means borrow or leverage in order to acquire several houses.

Really, I think debt increasingly becomes the correct medium when risk increases; we do not want to risk our own money.  Roll Eyes That works both ways so we should beware
 
The primary goal in business is survival.

Debt is really a burden and a liability and we can only ever feel safe when assets are greater than liabilities. This is simple household economics as Maggie and certainly mothers of my generation practiced.

Never mind the creative accounting today which re-labels simple terms like debt, this is the product of a coded language between governments and accountants which, if simplified, would destroy thousands of accounting careers overnight. How futile? If we had a flat rate of tax tomorrow, for example, or tax laws ordinary folk could understand without loop holes and caveats, we would not need accountants and perhaps tax revenues would increase.

Today debt has been given a respectable face by disingenuous bank managers who are focused on their commissions rather than their customer's welfare and investors who squander funds. In my lifetime it was associated with wastrels and scoundrels.  Cheesy
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Kubes.SG
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« Reply #14 on: 25 May 2011, 20:54:03 pm »
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Kubes dedicated an entire thread to this specious argument (that SG should raise interest rates):

http://www.expatsingapore.com/forum/index.php/topic,66396.0.html

As usual, when challenged on the facts (that this is not a SG-only problem, and that Australia itself is ALSO grappling with it) he zips up and lies low until (he thinks) the issue is forgotten.

How's about it, Kubes, for ONCE - respond to the counter (argument)?


Bloody hell.  I have answered this multiple times.  AU's RBA has raised interest rates SEVEN times since the GFC.  AU rates are now the highest in the developed world, by a mile.  This is stabilizing a booming economy and has slowed and actually reduced property prices about 1% last quarter - exactly what was intended and needed.  

This is what a mature, rational and independent central bank should do when it sees in its economy growing inflation, asset bubbles forming, and high economic growth.  The MAS retards are damaging the SG economy encouraging it to shoot up like a skyrocket.  You what you get after that happens?  A burnt stick.
« Last Edit: 25 May 2011, 20:55:38 pm by Kubes.SG » Logged

The object in life is not to be on the side of the Majority, but to escape finding oneself in the ranks of the Insane.
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