Palestinian Statehood

[Dr. Phil]

Next month we may have an historic United Nations showdown over Palestinian statehood and both Palestinian and Israeli authorities are bracing for the possibility of mass street protests that some fear could spiral into a violent uprising.

Palestinian leaders are rallying West Bank residents on Facebook and activists prepare campaigns against Jewish settlements and military checkpoints.

Israel’s Defense Ministry has spent about $22 million on new riot gear and police have canceled September vacations. Residents have also been issued with tear gas and contingencies include using live ammunition to disperse protesters.

The Israeli military is stockpiling tear gas dispensers, rubber bullets, stun grenades and so-called skunk water cannons as well calling up military reservists and making plans for emergency evacuations of settlements and an increased military presence in Palestinian-administered regions of the West Bank.

Palestinian officials have issued assurances they are committed to keeping the demonstrations non-violent, however even non-violent demonstrations in the very recent past have resulted in violent responses from Israeli security forces.

“There will be activities everywhere — against the wall [Israel's separation barrier], against the settlements and against the occupation,” said Wasel Abu Yousef, who heads the Palestine Liberation Front. ”We want to escalate all popular protests.”

“All indications show that we will have only peaceful demonstrations,” said Maj. Gen. Adnan Damiri, a spokesman for the Palestinian security forces. “We are not nervous nor on alert. The Israelis have their reasons and motives. They want to show to the world that by going to the U.N. we are taking this region and the world to war. We do not see it the same way.”

Whether the response on the streets remains peaceful or not may depend on whether the bid for U.N. recognition for Palestinian statehood succeeds. However, the measure may never even come before the full U.N. body because it would likely have to be approved by the Security Council first, where an expected U.S. veto would derail it.

Let us hope UK government does not shame us all and votes for the creation of a Palestinian state, with Jerusalem as its capital, which is long overdue. Or perhaps I should say the reinstatement of Palestine as a sovereign state.

Let us also hope that the many nations which comprise the UN will not only raise their voices in support, which they will, but that their voices will be heard.

[T2K]

A UN vote for Palestinian statehood, you say?  Interesting.

The same UN resolution which created Israel in 1948 (from British occupied territory that belonged to the Turks for centuries before that) also created the state of Palestine.

However, this resulted in an immediate invasion of the newly created state of Israel by everyone in the area, including the newly created Palestinians.  Attempts to eradicate Israel have continued ever since by Palestinians and other Arab states, either overtly or otherwise.

I hope the Palestinians can accept nationhood peacefully and get on with it.  History indicates otherwise, though.

[Dr. Phil]

A UN vote for Palestinian statehood, you say?  Interesting.

The same UN resolution which created Israel in 1948 (from British occupied territory that belonged to the Turks for centuries before that) also created the state of Palestine.

However, this resulted in an immediate invasion of the newly created state of Israel by everyone in the area, including the newly created Palestinians.  Attempts to eradicate Israel have continued ever since by Palestinians and other Arab states, either overtly or otherwise.

I hope the Palestinians can accept nationhood peacefully and get on with it.  History indicates otherwise, though.

Really? What history?
911 was not a Palestinian attack and I don't recall any other attacks in recent history, even Lockerbie, was not attributed to Palestinians. On the flip side the shoot to kill practices, Israeli state sponsored assassinations, unrestrained attacks on Gaza using depleted uranium on civilian Palestinian targets, the land grabbing...

[T2K]

You don't seem well informed.

Arab-Israeli Wars of 1948, 1956, 1967 and 1973 would be a good start, plus Munich Olympics attack of 1972.  That's obviously the relevant history...why are you going on about 9/11/01, Lockerbie, etc?

[Captain Scarlet]

"...an historic United Nations showdown..."

That might be the oxymoron of the moment Dr. Phil. The UN has proven to be about as useful as teets on a bull throughout the whole sorry mess that is the Palestine problem.

[scarbowl]

Jerusalem doesn't really have a place in Islamic history.  However, it plays a vital role in Jewish history, in the Torah, and throughout Judaism.  Look at any piece of Jewish writing and Jerusalem will be mentioned.  You can't find it in Islamic scripture or religious literature - except to bash Israel's "occupation."   Jerusalem belongs to Israel and cannot be part of the new Palestine.   That said, I do think it is time for Statehood for Palestine.  I don't know they are sufficiently responsible to govern it well but that isn't reason not to do this.

[Captain Scarlet]

My read is that Jerusalem is as important to the Palestinians as it is to the Jews. A capital city, a focus point of trade, community and future, just as its historical religious significance draws a passionate following.

How does one weight such a claim? Does religion hold sway or should population demographic determine "ownership"?

[T2K]

Ownership determines ownership.  Israel owns it.  If the Arabs had won any of their numerious attempts to eradicate Israel, then the Palestinians would own it.

[Dr. Phil]

Ownership determines ownership.  Israel owns it.  If the Arabs had won any of their numerious attempts to eradicate Israel, then the Palestinians would own it.

Don't you mean the Israel possess it?
How can it claim ownership of that which it has never owned?
Jews occupied Israel for such a short time after leaving Egypt. They are unique only in so far as they alone are the only people who have never integrated. Today, we call such people inbreds; perhaps that's why England has an open door immigration policy? 

[Old Mike]

The Jews lived in Israel from the Exodus, around 1500 BC until the destruction of the temple in 70 AD,with a gap of around 50 years under Babalyonian rule.
That is about 1500 years.

[Dr. Phil]

Lived, yes, as immigrants. Ruled, No.

Non-semitic Sumerians from Mesopotamia dominated large parts of the Levante including Syria from 3500-2500BC
Jews were just one of many tribes to settle in southern Levante (Syria and Palestine) coming from central Arabia over thousands of years.
In 1300BC Hebrews from Egypt seized Jericho and there were two Jewish states created, Israel and Judah both ended by the Assyrians in 720BC. This is the Iron Age!
There was never an independent Jewish state thereafter (until 2000AC) with US military aid and financial support.
The Jewish communities which remained from the Iron Age did enjoy some autonomy for brief periods until 135AD when Hadrian put down a final rebellion.

[Old Mike]

From the crushing of the Bar Kochbar revolt in 135, Israel has been ruled by the Romans, the Greeks ( Eastern Roman Empire), Arabs, Crusaders, Ottomans, Brits and since 1948, the Jews.
Never ruled by Palestinians.

No doubt the land should be given back to the Canaanites, and the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites,except that they and their descendents are long dead.

[hp sauce]

Don't start or the Greeks will want their marbles back ... And by jiminy their government could do with some.