IB school

[UWC2]

But UWCer, although you are right in what you say about the uwc IB results, you fail to include in your info that, the kids that make it past G10 to actually sit the IB exams are selected. The kids that uwc thinks will not do very well are advised to move on. Hence, the results are not reflective, but selective.

To Ah again:

This old chestnut is a recurring theme about UWC and its selection process for IB. It’s largely false.

My children went through this a while ago and here is how it worked at least then. During grades 9/10 all their work was marked on the IB scale of 1/7. Effort grades were accessed A, B and C. So the school would obviously track these results as a predictor for entry into the last two years of school and taking the IB Diploma. So if a child getting lots of 3/4s and B /C effort grades then there’s a problem and they and their parents would be counselled. If the effort grades improved, but the child was still struggling with the work then they might well be offered the chance to take the Certificate route and stay with the school.

If the effort grade stayed low then they might well be asked to leave because they will struggle to handle the IB Diploma without making a strong effort.

Now if you look at UWC’s IB results for 2010 you will see that only two children failed to pass the IB (needing 24 points) so the system worked, but you will also see the number of children who scored between 24/30 points was about 40. If UWC had followed your logic these children would have been denied entry into the IB Diploma because it brought down their average.

But the school’s selection process that I observed was to allow entry to all children currently enrolled who were making a strong effort and could at least obtain the Diploma. So of course there is a degree of selectivity (as there is in every system) but not in the way you infer.

[well put, UWCer2]

This reflects our experience too. The number of students who are advised against taking the IB diploma are actually pretty low.
Then again, this selection is often used in other systems too, e.g. in the A-level system. Most A-level schools require you to score at least a B in the GSCE exam if you want to take that subject at A level.
In the Singapore system of course the stress starts much earlier with the PSLE exams which determine what secondary school you can go to. I just had 2 friends going through that last year and both children missed their required score by 1 point and therefore could not get into some of the better schools they had set their heart on.

[But]

The point remains the same. Uwc or any other school's IB results are not a true reflection on the majority of the children at the school because, the majority do not take the IB just the selected few.

[UWC2]

The point remains the same. Uwc or any other school's IB results are not a true reflection on the majority of the children at the school because, the majority do not take the IB just the selected few.

To But:

You are completely mistaken. At UWC all the children (usually about 280/300 per year) take the IB Diploma. The others take the IB certificate.

[UWC2]

Correction, I should have written:

To But:

You are completely mistaken. At UWC nearly all the children (usually about 280/300 per year) take the IB Diploma. The others take the IB certificate.

[to but]

Can you clarify your point a bit more?
I don't understand your logic.
For example,in 2007, the year my son graduates, there were 14 tutor groups with between 20-22 students each which makes a total of 308 who took the GSCE exam at the end of Grade 10.
Every year  roughly a third of the sutdents leave Singapore after GSCE exams because it is seen as a natural cut -off point if a family has to return or move on due to parents' work. Some EU countries require that you live in your home country for 2 years prior to university entry so you qualify for home status fees. A good reason for some families to move back.  These 30 % get replaced with students who only join the school at that point,including 20+ scholars and FIB students.
Maybe 10 students were advised against taking the IB.
More than 300 students went on to take IB ( that means all the kids who entered grade 11) and apart from 2 or 3 who didn't pass, all others graduated with more than 24 points.
So how can you say the majority don't take the IB? If you get into the last two years , there is no other option then to take IB.

[UWCer]

Most of the UWCSEA children do the IB exams and e.g. this year (2011) the pass rate was 100% (300 children did it), average 7 points above the global average.  There are only a couple children at the end of grade 10 who are advised not to take it.  The school has a humane approach, it's not that they just rudely kick you out at that point.  As said earlier, they give you warning signs and chances to improve well ahead...

[So what idf]

so where do the kids go that they kick out but want to stay in Singapore - so they get a reference that states they are not capable of taking IB

[opt out early]

" so where do the kids go that they kick out but want to stay in Singapore - so they get a reference that states they are not capable of taking IB".

Depends on the family circumstances. As someone mentioned before, the students' progress gets monitored well in the two years up to GCSE and there are several parent/teacher conferences to put you in the picture. So if your child can't get the grades in the subjects needed for IB, it really shouldn't come as a surprise to the parents.
We have one child who was ideally suited to do IB and was very successful in it; with the other it became apparentin Grade 9 that it would be a huge struggle to do the IB programme. She managed to get all the recommendations but both we as parents and herself decided it wasn't worth the stress and anguish. She had always had trouble with essays in exam situation and often froze completely, despite help and tution from teachers and struggled with foreign languages . The IB examens would have been too much of a hurdle with very little reward at the end. So we withdrew her and she ended up doing A-levels in science subject which suited her much more.
Some parents send their children to other school systems or boarding schools back home or move out of Singapore.What happens back in your home country if a student hasn't got the grades to move up? If I remember right, to take an A-level in any subject you need to get at least a B in the GCSE exam or has that changed?
The way I see it, we didn't feel let down by the school.It was our choice to move to Singapore and if Singapore doesn't offer the best/most suitable schooling for my child, then I have the option to leave.There are families here who find their children would be much better suited to a more vocational education, but that option doesn't exist. It all depends what is more important for each family.

[Mama Mia]

Most of the UWCSEA children do the IB exams and e.g. this year (2011) the pass rate was 100% (300 children did it), average 7 points above the global average.  There are only a couple children at the end of grade 10 who are advised not to take it.  The school has a humane approach, it's not that they just rudely kick you out at that point.  As said earlier, they give you warning signs and chances to improve well ahead...

If 100% of "selected" pupils passed, it shows the system is broken.
Either the pass threshold is too low, the exams are too easy and do not challenge the children. For UWC education is an industry like pharmaceuticals, you keep the majority of parents on-side, coming back for more and that, rather than stretching all children, is the goal. That's the income earner.
Children educated and tested must be graded. There will be an increasing gap between the highest and lowest academic standards. There can never be 100% pass.
And not all kids want academia, there are artists and craftsmen and women in each class. What preparation do these kids get? What help? What encouragement?
You've made IB Diplomas appear to be the ONLY goal and those who do not achieve, whose talents are elsewhere are ignored or cast out.

[to Mama Mia]

Of the 100 % who passed,not all have passed at the same level. Some will have scrapped in on 24 points, the minimum to pass whilst others will have scored 40 + points, the highest being 45 points.
This also means that some students do not get into the courses or universities of their choice whilst others sail in.
There is a huge difference between achieving 30 points or 36 points or even 45 points.

And for those who would be better suited to be artists or craftmen, the IB is not suitable and often not necessary. So those students usually have the brains to recognise it themselves and look for other option. Sadly, there are few voactional options in Singapore - a price you have to pay if you want to live here.

[be balanced]

La Salle offers some good courses for those that want to focus on the arts.  May of the courses are open to students post 16. The problem is that many expats here want their children to go to Ivy League colleges or top UK universities and see anything else as failure.  UWC is a wonderful school but it's not for everyone, particularly post 16.  I feel that any school that claims to be all things for everyone, usually ends up being nothing for anyone.  If the IB diploma clearly isn't the right choice because your child isn't strong in most areas of the curriculum, then swallow your pride and do what's best for your child.  There's absolutely nothing wrong with focusing on your strengths by doing A levels or moving into a vocational course.

[UWCTOO]

I think I am one of those parents who you say that UWC is not for everyone. After experiencing them for a couple of years I do not think that it is the place for us long term. In fact we have decided to take our children home and put the same amount of money into a good private school there. I am not saying it is not a good school. I just do not think it is for us. My child has had a few good years there, but I can also see that my friends children have come on leaps and bounds at Canadian, SAS and Tanglin. What I mean by that is, UWC is just a school. Don't let it consume your life. There are lots of good schools out there. Whenever I read all these fantastic comments the story of the emperors new clothes always springs to mind!

[the question about IB]

Funny how the replies turned to UWC again when the question started about the IB. This, despite the fact that many schools in Singapore do the IB.
However, I agree with all those who say that IB isn't for everyone.And most parents will notice early on in their child's school years if that child is very academic and motivated or more of a dreamer or good with their hands. I have a highly academic child and a dreamer/doer. They didn't go to the same school because neither could cater for both their needs. Not easy with different school holidays and term times, but it was either that or going back home.

[dreamer/doer]

Funny how the replies turned to UWC again when the question started about the IB. This, despite the fact that many schools in Singapore do the IB.
However, I agree with all those who say that IB isn't for everyone.And most parents will notice early on in their child's school years if that child is very academic and motivated or more of a dreamer or good with their hands. I have a highly academic child and a dreamer/doer. They didn't go to the same school because neither could cater for both their needs. Not easy with different school holidays and term times, but it was either that or going back home.

Good observation PP.  May Iask where you send the "dreamer/doer"?