World War III

[Dr. Phil]

The leaders of France and Germany issued an ultimatum to other European Union governments, saying members of the 27-nation bloc must unequivocally accept fiscal integration and such acceptance must be unanimous and unqualified and this acceptance must be given by the end of the week.

French President Nicolas Sarkozy and German Chancellor Angela Merkel said they will use an EU summit on Thursday and Friday to enshrine fiscal discipline into EU treaties, notwithstanding the views of the peoples of Europe.
Should some countries decide not to participate, the 17 members of the eurozone will forge ahead with a deeper integration of fewer member states with punitive measures taken against those doubting states.

"We will see whether it will be 17 or 27," Mr Sarkozy said during a joint news conference with Ms Merkel. "But we're going full steam ahead to re-establish confidence in the euro and the eurozone."

The Franco-German announcement came after months of turmoil in financial markets that has put eurozone policy makers under unprecedented pressure to produce a solution to end the sovereign debt crisis.

But we must ask what has happened to democracy?
The people of Europe never had and inputs into any of the treaties including the Maastricht Treaty and a referendum on the EU Constitution was denied in UK and other countries; however on 29 May 2005 the French public rejected the Constitution by margin of 55% to 45% on a turn out of 69% and just three days later the Dutch rejected the constitution by a margin of 61% to 39% on a turnout of 62%.
But the people got it wrong and the politicians pushed it through.

Fiscal integration effectively hands total economic control, including setting taxes and raising revenues, to unelected and faceless European bureaucrats, called "Commissioners".
These technocrats have thus far succeeded in overthrowing the governments of Greece and Italy and have installed technocrats as leaders and cabinet members.
Indeed, many are former bankers which should raise alarms since the demarkation between the roles of corrupt bankers and their political bed-partners is becoming increasingly blurred.

So was fiscal integration the ultimate goal and is fiscal integration the End Game?
Bankers created unprecedented debt throughout Europe and caused property prices to reach unprecedented heights.
Politicians opened borders and allowed a flood of immigrants to dilute any effective nationalist spirit to oppose the passive domination which will flow from fiscal integration?

These desperate measures will of course help France to avoid joining PIIGS and will give Germany the absolute control over the economy of 27 European countries.

Between the bankers and politicians, even our own politicians whose protests are reminiscent of the best "B" movie acting, we have been royally screwed.      

But the greed and the lies and deceit can't continue forever. And when it comes, the bang will be even louder.  

[hoadoggiption]

I wonder how many world leaders are anti-war for that very reason.

[Old Mike]

The EU is so far from democratic that its rulers panic whenever there is a threat of a referendum.
Anyone with any sense could see that the Euro was doomed from the start, because of the very different economies of the participating states.
States were allowed to accumulate huge debts which they had no chance of ever repaying. This has led to a financial crisis. The democratically elected heads of the Greek and Italian states have already been replaced with EU nominees, without any pretense of any democratic process.
The latest summit meeting of EU heads of state was presented with a proposal that all their budgets should be controlled by an unelected EU committee, and that tax rates in all EU countries should be “Harmonized” into something surprisingly close to the German model. If this goes ahead, individual national sovereignty will be a thing of the past. It will not solve the immediate problem.
It is not very credible that those who set up the Euro were not aware of what would happen. It is far more likely that they got together and worked out that economic pressure could succeed where Napoleon and Hitler had failed.
I think that there is a very real possibility that the populations of several European states will revolt, replacing the current elites with other forms of government. I doubt if there will be WWIII

[P.O.D.]

The EU is so far from democratic that its rulers panic whenever there is a threat of a referendum.
Anyone with any sense could see that the Euro was doomed from the start, because of the very different economies of the participating states.
States were allowed to accumulate huge debts which they had no chance of ever repaying. This has led to a financial crisis. The democratically elected heads of the Greek and Italian states have already been replaced with EU nominees, without any pretense of any democratic process.
The latest summit meeting of EU heads of state was presented with a proposal that all their budgets should be controlled by an unelected EU committee, and that tax rates in all EU countries should be “Harmonized” into something surprisingly close to the German model. If this goes ahead, individual national sovereignty will be a thing of the past. It will not solve the immediate problem.
It is not very credible that those who set up the Euro were not aware of what would happen. It is far more likely that they got together and worked out that economic pressure could succeed where Napoleon and Hitler had failed.
I think that there is a very real possibility that the populations of several European states will revolt, replacing the current elites with other forms of government. I doubt if there will be WWIII

It started with a European Common Market designed to allow trade between member states, like in USA, duty and tax free and to protect and increase employment inside the Common Market.
Today China imports dominate and appear import duty-free which has destroyed jobs throughout the EU.

We Brits thought that an eventual federal Europe would be left to our children .

The unelected Commissioners have another Agenda.
They forge full speed ahead with regulations which are superfluous and serve only to hamper business opportunities at the same time allowing more and more China imports manufactured free of costs associated with environmental protection, anti-pollution, health and safety, training and development, quality assurance, research and development, taxes local and state......no wonder European companies cannot compete.

And who the fcuk are these unelected Commissioners to issue ultimatums to the people, that they must accept the EU Constitution (which they never did) or accept any other diktat designed to bind and compel the people towards economic armageddon purely to save French banks from bankruptcy and allow a cunningly patient Germany to capture global finance and absolute control over all European economies?

We must tell Sarkozy where to shove his fiscal integration.
  

[im_english]

I am English, I know England has its problems, but I believe Cameron did the right thing. If we and other 'European" countries allow short term economic uncertainity to result in us being bullied into signing up to whatever the dictators in Germany and France want to stuff down our throats then we and our children will regret it forever.

Sarkozy in particuliar is an obnoxious, childish, power mad little twerp. He is a high heel wearing little Napoleon. We and every other "European" country should tell this f******g little twerp where to go. And the same goes for any other trashy little politician in Euro trash land.

Far better to suffer some short term economic uncertainity than to be subsumed into a dictatorship being forged by people like little Sarkozy.

If the price is eventually to leave the EU entirely than so be it. Leave the burning pile of Euro trash to the trash of Europe.

[Dr. Phil]

I am English, I know England has its problems, but I believe Cameron did the right thing. If we and other 'European" countries allow short term economic uncertainity to result in us being bullied into signing up to whatever the dictators in Germany and France want to stuff down our throats then we and our children will regret it forever.

Sarkozy in particuliar is an obnoxious, childish, power mad little twerp. He is a high heel wearing little Napoleon. We and every other "European" country should tell this f******g little twerp where to go. And the same goes for any other trashy little politician in Euro trash land.

Far better to suffer some short term economic uncertainity than to be subsumed into a dictatorship being forged by people like little Sarkozy.

If the price is eventually to leave the EU entirely than so be it. Leave the burning pile of Euro trash to the trash of Europe.

I respectfully disagree.
We always knew Cameron would sell the British people out for a comfy seat at the "top table".
His party postured and promised to repatriate certain powers that the previous government had no right to give to Brussels. If the UK government does not want the powers given to them by the British people they should get out of politics.
All of the tough talk and before the first shot was fired they bottled out fearing we would be side-lined; better to go down on a European Titanic than share a lifeboat with cattle-class passengers?

I suggest that this is precisely the time to make our push to control and amend the EU.
I say this is precisely the time to curtail the reckless direction we are moving.
If Sarlozy and Merkel want to press on with a disastrous fiscal union which can never succeed, let us strengthen our Union with all member states who do not wish to follow France and Germany.

One thing is for sure, France and Germany will soon enough come to join US.

[Old Mike]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/dec/16/rise-greek-far-right-turmoil

It is starting.

[im_english]

I am English, I know England has its problems, but I believe Cameron did the right thing. If we and other 'European" countries allow short term economic uncertainity to result in us being bullied into signing up to whatever the dictators in Germany and France want to stuff down our throats then we and our children will regret it forever.

Sarkozy in particuliar is an obnoxious, childish, power mad little twerp. He is a high heel wearing little Napoleon. We and every other "European" country should tell this f******g little twerp where to go. And the same goes for any other trashy little politician in Euro trash land.

Far better to suffer some short term economic uncertainity than to be subsumed into a dictatorship being forged by people like little Sarkozy.

If the price is eventually to leave the EU entirely than so be it. Leave the burning pile of Euro trash to the trash of Europe.

I respectfully disagree.
We always knew Cameron would sell the British people out for a comfy seat at the "top table".
His party postured and promised to repatriate certain powers that the previous government had no right to give to Brussels. If the UK government does not want the powers given to them by the British people they should get out of politics.
All of the tough talk and before the first shot was fired they bottled out fearing we would be side-lined; better to go down on a European Titanic than share a lifeboat with cattle-class passengers?

I suggest that this is precisely the time to make our push to control and amend the EU.
I say this is precisely the time to curtail the reckless direction we are moving.
If Sarlozy and Merkel want to press on with a disastrous fiscal union which can never succeed, let us strengthen our Union with all member states who do not wish to follow France and Germany.

One thing is for sure, France and Germany will soon enough come to join US.

Not sure what you're disagreeing with. Cameron's veto was both to resist the Sarkozy-Merkel steamrollering their "plan" all over the EU and an attempt to force concessions out of Europe, i.e., amendments.

I said I thought Cameron did the right thing and you disagree so are you saying you think Cameron should have voted "yes", just like the other lemmings?

[Reverend Black]

I am English, I know England has its problems, but I believe Cameron did the right thing. If we and other 'European" countries allow short term economic uncertainity to result in us being bullied into signing up to whatever the dictators in Germany and France want to stuff down our throats then we and our children will regret it forever.

Sarkozy in particuliar is an obnoxious, childish, power mad little twerp. He is a high heel wearing little Napoleon. We and every other "European" country should tell this f******g little twerp where to go. And the same goes for any other trashy little politician in Euro trash land.

Far better to suffer some short term economic uncertainity than to be subsumed into a dictatorship being forged by people like little Sarkozy.

If the price is eventually to leave the EU entirely than so be it. Leave the burning pile of Euro trash to the trash of Europe.

I respectfully disagree.
We always knew Cameron would sell the British people out for a comfy seat at the "top table".
His party postured and promised to repatriate certain powers that the previous government had no right to give to Brussels. If the UK government does not want the powers given to them by the British people they should get out of politics.
All of the tough talk and before the first shot was fired they bottled out fearing we would be side-lined; better to go down on a European Titanic than share a lifeboat with cattle-class passengers?

I suggest that this is precisely the time to make our push to control and amend the EU.
I say this is precisely the time to curtail the reckless direction we are moving.
If Sarlozy and Merkel want to press on with a disastrous fiscal union which can never succeed, let us strengthen our Union with all member states who do not wish to follow France and Germany.

One thing is for sure, France and Germany will soon enough come to join US.

Not sure what you're disagreeing with. Cameron's veto was both to resist the Sarkozy-Merkel steamrollering their "plan" all over the EU and an attempt to force concessions out of Europe, i.e., amendments.

I said I thought Cameron did the right thing and you disagree so are you saying you think Cameron should have voted "yes", just like the other lemmings?

Errr, Cameron reversed his demands for the repatriation of many powers ceded to the EU by the previous Labour government lackies.