once bitten,twice shy.

[here or there]

To return or not to return?
I moved to singapore '05-'09 with work and at the end I didnt want to leave. However in 09 work brought me back to london.
It was a difficult transition for the first year or so-culture shock in reverse- but now I have bought a house in west london done it up over the past 2 year, settled down and now enjoying london and the seasons and travel in Europe again.
However, my dilemma, there is an opportunity to return to SGP in 2012.
Part of me remembers the good times in SGP and how hard it was to leave. But on the other hand having a nice house in good area and feel more settled down in home life, socially and with work colleagues mean it will be another wrench to home life as old friends in SGP have moved on too..
( I was 30 when I moved first and will be 38 if I go back)

My question is have others moved back to SGP after a few years and found it easier or harder than the first time?

The first move it was exciting and new. Will the second time round be quicker/better to settle or is it likely to be harder due to all the memories and always comparing to the last time?

Any opinions/advice welcome?

Cheers
 

[3rd time]

This is our 3rd time here and we love it as much as the 1st time which was in -99.  Singapore has changed though, more people, more traffic, more shopping malls, more construction work etc. etc. but it's still nice.

[leavingSP]

Hi, we have lived in Singapore twice. The first was 1999-2002 and second 2007- present. If you have kids now then you may have a few more considerations. For example it is now a lot harder to get them into popular schools unless you pay a very hefty debenture. Also the schools are more expensive then they were a few years back and keep putting up fees. In addition rents just keep increasing and increasing. You need to add on another 2-3 K on top of what you were paying back in 2009. In general all prices have gone up and the place is a lot more crowded than before. On top of this I do feel that Singapore is a lot less foreigner friendly than before and some of the new policies may affect you e.g. not as many applications for PR, spouses applications to set up businesses rejected (my application was rejected after living here for so many years and paying taxes into the system!!)

There are definitely more traffic, more people, more noise, more construction etc. than before. Quite frankly if I were you and you wanted an opportunity to go somewhere I would look at other places. You have been here, done that. If you have itchy feet try another experience. At the end of the day, for most people SP has a shelf life. We are heading back to the UK in next year. It is interesting to hear that you had reverse culture shock and I can see that we are going to have it too. I hope we get over it though!! We are looking forward to having our own place and finally having somewhere we can call home. Living in Asia has been a hoot, but it never felt like home. Now we are in our 40's we need to settle down.

[Mr A]

Singapore has definitely past its best. Downhill from now on. Will only get more polluted, congested, expensive and the locals more resentful.

I would avoid it.

[it's a shame...]

Singapore has definitely past its best. Downhill from now on. Will only get more polluted, congested, expensive and the locals more resentful.

I would avoid it.

that you don't

[Rents Up 2-3K]

Since 2009 - absolute bollocks.

Talking out of your rather large backside my dear.

[Gotto lol]

Singapore has definitely past its best. Downhill from now on. Will only get more polluted, congested, expensive and the locals more resentful.

I would avoid it.

that you don't

HAHAHA!

[not finished]

It's a lot busier than it used to be and still looks like a building site

[Don't relocate]

Since you are more settled now in England, I think you should stay and not go through the hassle of relocating.

[Mr A]

Singapore has definitely past its best. Downhill from now on. Will only get more polluted, congested, expensive and the locals more resentful.

I would avoid it.

that you don't

If the locals could do the jobs themselves I would be able to! 

[scorn]

You often hear this line about expats being needed to do jobs Singaporeans can't do. But the real problem is that there are not enough Singaporeans to go around.

Consider, there are just 3.2 million Singaporeans in a $220 billion economy, whereas the UK has 10 times the economy but 20 times the population. And from this tiny labour pool Singapore also fields a conscription military that removes its young men from the workforce for two years.

Singapore also has one of the highest emigration rates in the world, losing many of its highly educated to countries that because of land space offer a better quality of life.

So, while some expats like to think themselves superior to Singaporeans, the fact is that this tiny country on a per capita basis probably has more successful, talented people than any Western country. The problem is that there are too few of them. The need for expats is sign of their success, not failure.

[tosscorn]

Scorn

I have worked in Asia for 14 years, 9 of those in Singapore. I have worked for 2 very prestigious companies here and was responsible for recruitment and succession of rapidly expanding operations where if you worked there at the time and had half a brain, the world was your oyster. I spent a lot of my time identifying Asian talent to be groomed for senior roles (Director, Assistant GM, Partner roles in different industries). I can tell you that on many occasions I banged my head against a brick wall because the Singaporeans told me that they were happy were they were and didn't want the added responsibility and stress, often despite being offered 30-40% increases. So you would have no.2's and no.3's in a department telling me they didn't want to work toward a promotion to become no.2, then no.1. For a company looking to expand aggressively this causes a serious bottleneck when you want to home grow your talent and look after your staff from a HR point of view. In the end we brought in many expats to fill these roles and then these clogs in the system moaned about all the foreigners taking their jobs  These Singaporeans were degree and master degree 30+/40+ year old people. The only people I have ever seen take the bull by the horns and show some cajones, determination and ambition are Chinese Malay and some HK'ers.

On another note, not a senior role but I once was asked by the CEO of my old company ( a household name in Singapore and very, very respected here) to hire him a PA. He is the sweetest, caring man and he identified a lady in our office who was a brilliant Executive Secretary. She was single, late 30's and very very good. We offered her double her salary, then triple. She said No, she didn't want the "responsibility".

So a CEO of one of the most prestigious companies here, asks YOU to be his assistant, sets you up CV wise for life and you say "NO!" The dumb woman. She went back to her desk and is still there happily typing away, doing the same hours as the new PA and having none of the $ and prestige. I don't understand.

I think it is truer to say that there are not enough Singaporeans to do the low end jobs and there are not enough Singaporeans who have the drive to get to the top. They are mostly happy to hang out in the middle and not have their boat rocked. 

[no scorn]

@poster Scorn.

You said

Singapore also has one of the highest emigration rates in the world, losing many of its highly educated to countries that because of land space offer a better quality of life.

I find that hard to digest. Why would anyone citizen want to migrate from Singapore?? The quality of life here is VERY impressive.

[True]

In our company (British MNC) perhaps 1000 personnel in SGP only 3 (singaporeans) to my knowledge have demonstrated the skills and more importantly the get up and go to move to uk for 2-3 years to gain more experience. As they work hard and become visible in the  HQ they are asked to return  and in doing so leap frog everyone else- i mean go up 3 grades in 3 years that would take 10-15yrs of boot licking with no guarantees if they stayed in sgp with the masses. The company is desparate to offer opportunities to the locals to give them wider business experience but in the main the locals dont want to move out their comfort zone. As a result they are always overlooked. is it any wonder that expats are shipped in.

[stages]

Its so interesting to read about your considerations. We have just moved back to Europe from singapore. We are in the middle of the re culture shock and all we can think of is when to go back to singapore for a while and get back to our old comfortable life there. anyhow, I have got those moments when I like being back here and I do hope and think that these moments will increase and that in the end we might settle down here again. I wonder if we will ever live in singapore again. At this moment I would cry if we wouldn't but then again I am not sure how we will think in a few years time. I think I would take the change again and go through all that again as it was sooo exciting.....