Woz disses Singapore

[Sweaty Sock]

Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple, has been quated in an interview as saying that a similar company could never be founded in Singapore.

"Look at societies like Singapore where bad behaviour is not tolerated and can get you extreme punishments: Where are the creative people? Where are the great artists, where are the great musicians, where are the great writers?

All the creative elements seem to disappear. Though, of course, everybody is educated and has a good job and nice pay and a car."

Hyperbole aside, is he right?

[jalanperak]

Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple, has been quated in an interview as saying that a similar company could never be founded in Singapore.

"Look at societies like Singapore where bad behaviour is not tolerated and can get you extreme punishments: Where are the creative people? Where are the great artists, where are the great musicians, where are the great writers?

All the creative elements seem to disappear. Though, of course, everybody is educated and has a good job and nice pay and a car."

Hyperbole aside, is he right?

There was a discussion here a while ago about LKY's comments on Singapore's "creative class." In general, while Woz has a point, I think he overstates a problem he doesn't really understand. There *are* creative people here and given the size of the population, I think there's been some pretty good accomplishments.

Part of the problem, I think, is best shown by a real world example of Apple and Creative Technologies. Creative basically invented the portable MP3 music player, and Apple wanted to partner with them to produce a more "Apple-like" product. Creative told Apple to take a hike, believing they could dominate the market on their own. The problem with Creative wasn't that they were too straight-laced or that they lacked creativity and innovation. The problem was that they were greedy and they lacked business and marketing savvy.

[cactus]

I've got mixed feelings on what Woz said. He's right that Singapore does not achieve great innovations on the level of other small countries such as the Netherlands -take any trip to Amsterdam and you feel a creative buzz Singapore cannot touch.

But this is more due to the education system's high-stress, creativity-killing nature than it is about Singapore's politics. Speaking of which, hasn't Woz noticed that ever since 911, the US constitution has been ripped to shreds and America's cops have gone taser happy, not even sparing children, the elderly or feeble-minded.

He's still under the illusion America is a free country. What probably drives the US's unusual creativity is educational excellence at the top --combined with a tolerance for academic non-achievers and dropouts --like Wozniak and Jobs for example.

[Youareright]

^^ agree with the above. It's not lack of freedom but the education system and parent attitudes that destroy creativity here. I also think it is the lack of choices which is partly due to size.

[moneymoneymoney]

In the West, to differing extents depending on who you know, we talk about things, we are critical, we discuss ideas, we aren't afraid of saying extreme things, we aren't paranoid about making mistakes. That process happens in different ways in universities, in companies, socially in peoples homes, in pubs, in cafes. Its just more part of life. Here I am afraid this happens less, people seem preoccuppied with everyday things, material things, with money, with real estate, shopping.

I constantly hear people here say that the West is very meterialistic. I find that strange and I think its just one of those mindless platitudes that are repeated parrot fashion. I think people are far more materialistic over here. That materialism and blinkered view of the world in terms of short term material benefits has its consequences. When a culture is focused so much on shopping and creature comforts is it any surprise there isn't much in the way of intellectual substance?

Maybe the source of creativity in the West is a more communicative and open culture where questioning and critical thought are more fundamental to the culture and more valued. That translates into business, science and art. To create you first need to destroy and without critical thought that process can't even begin.

 

[DerIsHop]

Despair not. Some dude actually went ahead and broke open a window in the stalled MRT. Gasp! Creativity and innovation!

[Dr. Phil]

Oh pleeeeaaze. Give me a break!  
We in the "west" (west of what?) can be so condescending.

But I agree with Nick Clegg, we are hiding our light and want it kept hidden; we do not like to boast of our unemployment levels (10% in USA and UK at least and stats have been manipulated for so many years the bulk of unemployed are not even counted after the first year) or our unprecedented indebtedness or rising crime and drug addiction and falling birth rate......... I could go on ad nauseam, but as Cameroon says, our negative birth rate is more than compensated for by immigration.
Ah, immigration, yes and today, we are told, more immigrant children are born in UK than "ethnic" children so that's fine and prepares the population for European Federation.

And our people are so discerning aren't they?
We value democracy don't we?
That is why unelected technocrats have created todays dysfunctional EU single-handed and without any inputs from the people, and notwithstanding numerous objections from a majority. We have a monster Federation of European states with voluminous rights and we are almost completely controlled by those ghostlike technocrats who slip effortlessly between banks and government offices.
They have already taken control in Italy and Greece.

And we defend our society, customs and traditions don't we?

Whereas all across the Middle East (east of what?) lesser mortals sacrifice themselves for freedom.
In Egypt there is today a necessary second revolution in the name of democracy.
There are literally tiers of an established elite and privileged class who will take some shifting and will cling on to power with the tenacity of a limpet.
And we applaud the courage of the protestors and celebrate their image.

But elsewhere in Palestine Israel continues a holocaust against the indigenous population and we do not intervene or impose the ubiquitous boycott.

And in our "west" some are standing up to the corrupt oligopoly of robbing bankers and corrupt, inept politicians but our protestors are threatened with criminal records and imprisonment and we are building lots more prisons with more borrowed money.

We don't even get interest on our savings anymore and why are the only bankers behind bars the ones who wore masks?

Lets remember we in the west live in glass houses.  
But it surely isn't a resort lifestyle.

Oh yes, Holland is buzzing. Some would say "ticking" what with levels of immigration and a recent report which stated child abuse by Dutch Catholic priests was worse even than that in Ireland with 1 in 10 of all Catholic children abused and for the children in the custody and care of the Catholic church, 1 in 5 were abused. The Catholic church is the single greatest pedophile organization in the history of the world.

And we continue to churn out laws which we never use and give immunity which is abused.

[localmanjames]

Steve Wozniak, co-founder of Apple, has been quated in an interview as saying that a similar company could never be founded in Singapore.

"Look at societies like Singapore where bad behaviour is not tolerated and can get you extreme punishments: Where are the creative people? Where are the great artists, where are the great musicians, where are the great writers?

All the creative elements seem to disappear. Though, of course, everybody is educated and has a good job and nice pay and a car."

Hyperbole aside, is he right?

Woz, and the above posters, are just making a fool out of themselves. Singapore -- everybody is educated, has a good job and car?

40% of Singaporeans have no education whatsoever. Many Singaporeans toil day and night for 1.5-2k a month, their entire lives. And only 10% or 20% have a car.

The S'pore education system (especially post-sec edu) is one of the things I hate most about the country. In fact, I got so sick of it I went abroad for uni.

But to give it credit, Singaporean students rank top 5 (actually first) in the world in terms mathematics, science, reading in international assessments of education systems. And the Angus Ross prize for literature goes to a Singaporean student every year, pretty amazing achievement for a country of 3 million citizens.

At the end of the day, on balance, I am still quite glad to have received my basic education in Singapore.

And Singapore ranks top ten in the world in terms of patents filed per capita. The thumbdrive, PC sound card (so all computers can have sounds), mp3 player, NEW water, are just some of the things that are invented in S'pore.

The Japanese have a much more stifling culture than Singapore and even they have a more organised, safer, more innovative and more high-tech country than the Americans.

Woz = typical brainwashed fatty.

[Al Amak]

Singapore has heaps of creative people. Or should that be "had"?

Most of the creative people migrated elsewhere or were driven out by government policies of the 60s, 70s and 80s. The rest were given government scholarships and turned into bonded nerds.

Enough of Creative Technologies already. Apart from Soundblaster blah blah blah - what else have they produced?

Steve Jobs, the Rolling Stones, Tony Blair, Barack Obama would never have made it in Singapore. The system would have killed them off a long time ago after a good dose of National Service.

[localmanjames]

Singapore has heaps of creative people. Or should that be "had"?

Most of the creative people migrated elsewhere or were driven out by government policies of the 60s, 70s and 80s. The rest were given government scholarships and turned into bonded nerds.

Enough of Creative Technologies already. Apart from Soundblaster blah blah blah - what else have they produced?

Steve Jobs, the Rolling Stones, Tony Blair, Barack Obama would never have made it in Singapore. The system would have killed them off a long time ago after a good dose of National Service.

I think you need to get out there and take a good look. There are quite many S'porean inventions, not just in technology but the sciences as well. Just take the recent bird flu or SARs epidemic. Singapore Technologies invented a mobile fever scanner which was then used at all airports and was sold to countries all over the world. And I think the vaccine for the bird flu was also developed in Singapore as well. Singapore lacks water, so we invented NEWater. The Armed Forces also use many local made technology like the SAR-21, Bionix, Bronco (which was sold to the UK) etc.

Singapore is a Newly Industrialised Country with less 50 years of history (of which only 20 or so years are 'Industrialised'). The UK has almost a thousand years of history(probably more if you include the Angles-Saxon era or the Briton era), the USA 300+ years. With a larger population and longer history, obviously the UK would have more inventions to its name compared to S'pore..

[Pre-occupation]

Singapore is the most materialistic and money-obsessed place I've ever been. They call it 'kiasu'? Such a pre-occupation with being better/smarter/richer/having more status than your neighbor is bound to result in economic creativity; a means to an end. Hence, all the patents filed.
However, such a pre-occupation and culture of materialistic accummulation - starting from birth - stifles other forms of creativity. This is why there is a no local "buzz" in the arts, music or humanities that you find in other large cities. It's all imported (and why it costs a fortune to get a ticket).

[perplexed]

a pre-occupation and culture of materialistic accummulation - starting from birth - stifles other forms of creativity

Interesting - why does materialism stifle creativity?

[Dr. Phil]

a pre-occupation and culture of materialistic accummulation - starting from birth - stifles other forms of creativity

Interesting - why does materialism stifle creativity?

I don't think it does. In fact materialism is a great stimulus, we don't all live to work. 

However materialism, or the quest for material gain is clearly stifling Singapore's transport.
Last week on three consecutive days the north-south MRT train broke down resulting in a whole morning of inactivity which stranded commuters and caused travel times in excess of 3 hours.
In UK I can travel half the length of England in that time.

I remember the days when I could stroll onto any MRT platform and enjoy the tranquility.
Now its all frenzy and pushing and shoving all in the name of a greater population which, it is believed, will bring greater wealth and materialism. But to whom?
As with the property market and price increases, probably just a few Developers at the expense of the people but surely we can now see that pattern prevails, especially in banking and finance.

Alas, greater populations require exponentially greater infrastructures and that in itself will swallow any profits which may accrue due to these added and mounting inconveniences.

Today the MRT, what about tomorrow, grid-locked roads, sewage treatment failures, cold storage food and distribution crises?

[Good question]

a pre-occupation and culture of materialistic accummulation - starting from birth - stifles other forms of creativity

Interesting - why does materialism stifle creativity?

Good question. I don't think materialism stifles creativity. But Singaporeans are so uncreative their materialism is pretty one dimensional.

I think being Kiasu stifles creativity.   Ie: there is only one right school to go to, one right car to have, one right bag to own, one right job to have, only one right way to do things. It's all so narrow.

[localmanjames]

a pre-occupation and culture of materialistic accummulation - starting from birth - stifles other forms of creativity

Interesting - why does materialism stifle creativity?

Good question. I don't think materialism stifles creativity. But Singaporeans are so uncreative their materialism is pretty one dimensional.

I think being Kiasu stifles creativity.   Ie: there is only one right school to go to, one right car to have, one right bag to own, one right job to have, only one right way to do things. It's all so narrow.

There sure are many people around whose minds are extremely one-dimensional and whose bodies are extremely three-dimensional....