Asian Values Revisited

[globalcommunity]

There was some heated debate some time ago which I was late to join in, so I would like to add my two bobs worth.

These are what proponents of Asian values are based on the premise that there is:-
*deference to societal interests (one of the more important points). It clarifies a very important message where "the rights of the society must come above the rights of the individual".
*an attachment to the family as an institution;
*thrift
*conservatism in social mores
*respect for authority

This list is not exhaustive, and yes, Asians do prize consensus over confrontation, and to emphasise the importance of education amongst other things.

This is not to say that Asian values are superior, and not without drawbacks, or that these values are only promulgated in the "Asian" region.

I may dare criticise that some of these values, when exercised absolutely, have created nepotism from family attachments, and wheel-greasing and corrupt politics from seeking consensus.

A lot of these values have emanated from a familiar philosophy handed down by Confucius, and to a certain extent, from Buddhism, Islam, Christianity et cetera.

I believe that the world is a global community where exchanges of ideas happen often and very quickly in this era. It is easy for "Non-Asians" to criticize and say that these values are universal - but they are indeed universal. It is also easy for a staunch supporter of Asian Values to say that the Non-Asians have confused ideas rooted in their own tradition - about individual freedom and liberal democracy - with universal truths.

Historians will tell that in the pursuit of individualism, Non-Asians have made the descent into a morass of broken families, drug-taking, promiscuity, mud-slinging and violence.

Nevertheless, this does not mean that they do not have "Asian values" since I believe that they are universal values.

Values change over time to suit the present change of what's most important -economic progress. The 19th century Britain used to have "Victorian values" that suited the conditions then. The 21st century Singapore will likely have Asian Values as well as "external" values.  In fact, every person, Asian or not, and every country, Asian or not will adopt all kinds of values to their own convenience.

The words "Asian values" should not be taken as to apply only to Asians in Asian countries but rather, it is a generic term to apply to the ideals that were mostly mooted in Northern Asia a few centuries ago.

Again, this world is a global community only made smaller by technology.

[Ray Walston]

And your point is . . .  ?

[jeddediah]

Globalcommunity

Rubbish!
Asian values are a construct of modern (last 20 yrs) Sth East Asian politicians.  The term was subsequently picked up by western economists, politicians and lackee political hacks who were trying to explain the "miracle" of Asian economic growth in the 80's and early 90's.
Show me one reference to "Asian Values" in any pre 1950's document and I will eat my hat!

[globalcommunity]

the term was coined perhaps, as you say, in the last 20 years, but it's always been practised.

for example, Confucius believes that "right choices in the interest of humanity as well as as in the best interest of the state" bodes well to create a relationship between the superior (ruler) and the inferior (subject individual) also indicating that the rights of the society must serve above the rights of the individual.

as mentioned, values are relative, and change over time to adapt to the current situation.

[values you say]

*an attachment to the family as an institution;*

an example would be Minnime's dilemma - a very pertinent issue for the asians :
<my parents are getting on and i would like to be there for them>
and the responses.

[Ray Walston]

I reread the original post and GlobalCommunity's follow-up, and I still fail to see what point you are trying to make.   Make it easy for me; what are you getting at?

[AsianPhilosophy]

jeddediah,

Maybe the term "Asian Values" was  invented in the last 20 years.

But your tone seems to suggest that asians have lived in moral and ideological vacuum prior to that. An attitude which borders on arrogance.

Are you seriously of the opinion that prior to the invention of this term, asians had no values / culture / ideology ?

Pls keep in mind that asian civilisations and cultures are not recent. That they gave birth   to religions, ideas and philosophy which have played a part in shaping the world we live in today.

And that asian cultures and values been around for a very long time.

[Perhaps]

I think most of us factor in the family issue when we move away from our aging parents. Minnime is not exceptional in this. The responses acknowledge this universal difficulty but give ways to help. True they do not say don't go because your parents need you, I doubt many asians would either. After all many asians migrate.
It does not come over as Minnime's primary concern however, that appears to be financial independence. Does that make this issue an asian value?

[SoSo]

Global Community
Actually the values you state are ones that were practiced in the west 40+ years ago. I was brought up with them.

To me there is little difference between Western & Asian values - just time. In another 40 years time what is happening in the west will probably be happening here. No idea what the west will have become by then...

[Jedddediah]

AsianPhilisophy and Globalwhatever,

The previous thread and this one were about "Asian Values". Pointing out that this term was coined recently (which you both agree with) in no way implies (by any logic except perhaps a paranoid one unused to criticism) that there were asians living without values prior to the coining of the term; so don;t accuse me of ignorance or arrogance on that score.  
Yes - there were and are great asian thinkers, philosphers, moralists, etc, etc. - of course - just as there are many western ones.  
It think it helps to clarify terminology however.  Pointing out that "Asian Values" is a recent construct (and we seem to agree on that) serves simply to assist the argument I would make that there is nothing identifiable as a unique set of Asian values.  Confucious was Asian but does this make his values "asian" (- I doubt he even had a concept of "asian" but just thought of himself as Chinese).  His thoughts, values, etc speak to humanity - they are no more "asian values" than Jesus's or say Aristotle's are Jewish or Greek, respectively.

[MCMcG]

If Asians place so much value on the family unit, why is it that Singapore laws allow for working 44hrs per week whereas in Europe 37 - 39 h/week is the norm?
Why is it that in many companies in Singapore annual leave, maternity leave, flexitime etc falls sadly short of that enjoyed by those decadent, unscrupulous Europeans. Generally, Europeans must have much more quality time to spend with their families.
Principles and practices may be worlds apart.........

I agree with Soso above. I too was brought up in Europe with these "Asian" values. To those who like to use the phrase, please note that not all Westerners come from Hollywood (no offense Hollywooders!)

[values you say]

Soso .. interesting.  

i was wondering if these situations were actually cycles societies experience (not helped  by prevailing hollywood hype which includes of course, materialism).

an aside observation:
the family unit and family values still seem  important to many Italians, Greeks, eastern Europeans ... i notice these cultures remain very closeknit even when they become immigrants and migrate wherever.

could this alienation from family, "old family vs new family" as Ray Walston puts in Minnime's Dilemma thread ......  
be a result of the newer cultures and societies then?
that is - subcultures that evolve as a result of migration, for eg, the americans/australians/canadians etc?

these are just some personal observations, with no empirical basis (and no offence intended).  
any experts out there who care to elaborate?

[yahooo]

am off to Bangkok later this month....I shall be sampling extensively Asian Values.....will let you know!

[tonysfanclub]

Is that you Tony? Frequent visits to Nana Plaza does not make you an expert on shagging a woman, Asian or xpat. That's values for you dearie.    

[Snaffled]

Just 2 points (or cents)

The 'Asian Values' terminology has often been used by autocratic dictators in an effort to pin blame on the west and to distract populations from domestic failures.  There are certainly exceptions to theis (most notably LKY), but when the psychotic rulers of Burma and the tyrants running China jump on it & start spouting about Asian Values, a degree of scepticism in the concept is very healthy.

My second point would be that defining certain values as being Asian is as asinine as defining others as being western.  
Asia includes staunchly Christian populations, horrific despots, the most populous Islamic nation in the world, deeply held Buddhist beliefs as well as the disease of enforced communism.  How one can find a strong and common value in such a diverse region is beyond me.  
Similarly, how can one throw the cultures and values of countries like Greece, Iceland, Mexico, the USA and Switzerland together under the umbrella of 'Western Values'.  

It's a daft as the Chinese Communist Party continuing to rule by slogan.