Family and salary consideration

[JohnSIN]

Hello everyone,
I've been browsing the forum for info on "minimum salary" for a family of 4, trying to asses if the current expat package is enough...

The household salary would be $120K, with the following main expenses:
- rent @$4K per month for a 3 bedrooms in district 19 ($48K per year)
- education for the 2 kids ($34K per year)
- tax $8K per year
Total main expenses: $90K versus $120K salary

So we would have $30K left for food, utilites and others...
Potential upsides: annual bonus, spouse job.
Savings: we have no debt and good amount in savings accounts just in case...

What do you think? Any comments on the rent on district 19? on the tax amount?

Thank you in advance,
John.

[Kafka]

Hello everyone,
I've been browsing the forum for info on "minimum salary" for a family of 4, trying to asses if the current expat package is enough...

The household salary would be $120K, with the following main expenses:
- rent @$4K per month for a 3 bedrooms in district 19 ($48K per year)
- education for the 2 kids ($34K per year)
- tax $8K per year
Total main expenses: $90K versus $120K salary

So we would have $30K left for food, utilites and others...
Potential upsides: annual bonus, spouse job.
Savings: we have no debt and good amount in savings accounts just in case...

What do you think? Any comments on the rent on district 19? on the tax amount?

Thank you in advance,
John.

Hi, I think it is OK but you won't live the super expat lifestyle and there's not much space for savings, travel and overall for entertainment...
A few comments:
- you do not mention transportation... is the 34K for kids schooling inclusive of school bus? (can be very pricey if international school). For your work, it will have to be public transportation, not taxis, and could take time too, depends where you work
- there is little space left in your budget for holidays/leisure?
- as a reference, utilities + internet + TV + mobile phones (called hand phone here), I think you can count $500/month (unless you live in aircon 24/7, do some research on this board, some people here have astronomical utilities bill)
- is this an expat package with yearly holiday flight home included? If not, it's going to cost you an arm if you are from Europe/US (count 6K for the family to Europe). Same question with health insurance, if family coverage is not included in your package, it will be difficult.
Hope this helps.

[been there etc]

Your salary, family situation and rent is matching pretty much exactly my situation. Add travel expenses and insurance covers etc and you'll struggle, especially with a western lifestyle - groceries( +wine/beer) are ridiciously expensive if you are on a western diet.

The only thing that makes it work for us is my wife's salary bringing in another 5k/month.

We are looking at going back to Europe now simply because the place has become so expensive that the negatives outweight the positives.

[Mr A]

You'll struggle. You will want to take regional holidays and weekend breaks and they have not been factored in. Just the flights for 4 for a weekend break in Phuket or Vietnam or Bali is going to set you back at least $1000 on a budget airline and add another $1000 for holiday expenditures and suddenly four annual weekend breaks has eaten up another 8k, and thats without taking a proper two week holiday into account. You will need to escape fairly frequently or you will start going mad.  Singapore is small and gets smaller and smaller. The previous poster is right, the place has become ridiculously expensive over the last two years and is set to increase further. Unless you have money to throw away at mediocre standards and are happy to do that then you may want to rethink.

Paying your tax out of your bonus would release another 8k.

[sounds familiar]

Hi we live on a bit more than that but are finding it hard to save.  It has become really expensive here in the last few years, but then again it has become expensive pretty much everywhere.  I would say you need at least your school fees paid that will really take the pressure off.   As well, if your wife can work a bit  and bring in a few more Ks to pay some leisurely things then you would have a nice life here.

[JohnSIN]

thank you everyone for your comments/inputs

So if we summarize the family planned budget:

48K housing (4000 per month in D19, sounds right?)
36K education, after school for 2 young children
14K food (1200 per month)
11K tax
 8K travel (no home flights covered by my company)
 7K Misc.
 6K utilities (500 per month)
 2K transport (200 per month)

132K Total

optional
maid: 8K

So are 140K sounds OK? (we have no debts, have a fairly good amount of savings and health insurance is covered for the family)

[Schoolfeeslow]

When the kids hit primary school fees plus bus would be 22k per child minimum. Unless you want to go local or homeschool or distance school.

[JohnSIN]

Hi, thank you for your comment
Just double checked and the fees for primary school for the school in question will be 18K per child (in 2yrs for #1 and 5 yrs for #2)

[2 Kids]

you may want a car with a couple of fitted seats. This will be around 1K a month minimum.

School fees seem to go up ridiculously quickly as well.

But having said that if you are young enough and on an upward path a year or 2 with a little bit of a struggle initially might be worth it.

[deciding factor]

School bus fees can be very expensive.   I pay $2000 per child per year.  Using the school but only one way (mornings or afternoons) is charged at 70% to discourage parents from this option.

There are always unforeseen expenses and the bottom line is that although the salary will cover the basics, you will be VERY aware of living on a tight budget.  What makes a difference in your case is the potential for a bonus and possible earnings from your spouse.  How realistically you can rely on these factors, only you can decide.  They will however make the difference between just getting by and a comfortable existence.

[mum 2-2]

So are 140K sounds OK? (we have no debts, have a fairly good amount of savings and health insurance is covered for the family)


sounds as though you are banking on using your savings to live here. Why? Is it "that" bad where you are?

[JohnSIN]

Hi
Yes spouse job is likely, as well as the bonus (more likely
For the savings comment, I was just saying that we have savings just in case. We are trying to build a conservative budget with most of the potential delta would be upsides (wage increase above inflation, bonus, spouse job, etc...)
The school transportation was a new factor to me, the school we are looking at has $600 to $900 fee depending on the distance, which is OK.
Thank you again

[SinnerJ]

Johnsin,

From your description, you are being hired on a local package. Expat packages come with at least housing and school fees. Are you from India or China originally? If so, you may find the local schools to your liking as their instruction methods are similar but superior to your home country. That would reduce your expenses dramatically and the private bus fees to local schools are several-fold lower than those to international schools. If your wife works, you will have to find some sort of after-school care for your kids, which is basically non-existent here. Local families have grandparents or maids for that and expats use maids, again adding to the expense.

Good luck.

[JohnSIN]

Thank you for your reply. I'm orginaly from Germany, but I now work in Washington, DC.

You are right, it is a local package, I understand there is currently a significant trend to have this kind of package compared to the classic "expat" package. It is all about savings for the companies involved. I undersant economic times are difficult (especially in the Western economies) and negotiations are more difficult because of this current environmment.

Currently the latest draft of my package is $140K (+bonus) and a $ support for moving, 3 months of services apartment and initial travel for the 4 us from the USA. I'm really struggling to assess if $140K is enough for a family? I guess I'm looking at fellow expats that may have a similar situation or expats that can "simulate" our situation.

Concretly:
~$48K for housing ($4000 per month for a 3 bedroom in D19 or D20)
~$35K for the education of the 2 little ones (including transports)
~$11K tax
~$ 6K various utilities

less sure about those ones:
$14.4K for food ($1200 per month for a family of 4)
$ 3K transportation ($250 per month)
$ 2K children activites/after school

So that's $120K total, the last $20K would be about travel and misc.
(not planning to have a maid for now

Really appreciate your inputs in this decision time.
All the best,
John.

[localmanjames]

thank you everyone for your comments/inputs

So if we summarize the family planned budget:

48K housing (4000 per month in D19, sounds right?)
36K education, after school for 2 young children
14K food (1200 per month)
11K tax
 8K travel (no home flights covered by my company)
 7K Misc.
 6K utilities (500 per month)
 2K transport (200 per month)

132K Total

optional
maid: 8K

So are 140K sounds OK? (we have no debts, have a fairly good amount of savings and health insurance is covered for the family)

How old are your kids? 36k might not be enough for some international schools, kid I know in an international school pays something like 24k a year. Not including all the holiday programmes and all that rubbish.

1200 per month for food for four person = 300 per person per month. Once again, how old are your kids? If you are looking to cook one-two meals daily, then it is doable, but it will be only a very tight budget.

Otherwise, budget at least 500 per adult, and at that amount, you would be eating cheaply, with all your meals from fast food outlets and small stalls, you won't be eating at restaurants or the likes. 2k/mth at least for all four of you is more realistic, and even at 2k, it is quite budget eating.

Four people should not use 500 in utilities bills, the bills should cost only 300-400...yeah maybe 500 is a good ballpark. Air-con is the killer here.

200 for transport for all four person is too little. Again it depends on whether your kids walk to school, and whether you can walk to work etc. A comfortable figure would be 400-500 if you take public transport all the time. For public transport plus the occasional cab, 700-800.

Ach, nein! Frankly, if I were you, I would just look for cheaper housing, is is the housing that is killing your budget here. Or send your kids to local schools, they cost only a few hundred dollars per year compare to 20k plus at international schools.

Something has to give.